Using Eminem in Women's Studies Courses

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I appreciate the discussion about Eminem, and I liked Jackson Katz's little
set of talking points.  But I'm increasingly troubled by the criticism of
Eminem.  

That's not because I subscribe to any of the arguments used in his defense:
his work is "of a certain culture," it's parodic (Christgau) and 50 million
screaming girls can't be wrong (also Christgau).  Nonsense.  There's a
certain weasly equivocating that strikes me as disingenuous.  I also agree
with those who have said that if the disgusting things he says about women
or gays were said about, say, Jews or blacks, he would have no career
whatever.  Women and gays?  Hey, that's just parody.  (Which is not to say
that it's not useable in teaching; I use his work as well.)

My uneasiness is about race.  Simply put, I think we're going after Eminem
because he's white.  That means, for white critics, he's "safe" to go
after.  It's easy and keeps us "pure."  There are hundreds of
African-American gangsta rappers whose lyrics are just as offensive, and
when we have criticized them in the past black cultural critics like Skip
Gates have accused us of racism.  But Eminem is safe, because if we single
him out, who can accuse us of racism?

In my neighborhood, recently, I saw a little six year old boy wearing a
T-shirt with a lyric from Snoop Dogg on it.  "Women Ain't Shit" said the
front, "'Cept Bitches and Hos" said the back.  

Now it seems too pat and easy to go after Eminem for his misogyny and
homophobia and to avoid taking the heat from misogynists and homophobes in
the black community by failing to extend our critique.  It is not the form,
as Queen Latifah makes clear.  It's the content.  

Michael Kimmel

I am posting this for a fellow-list subscriber who is having a difficult
time posting it herself.


>From: "K M K" <kkapusta   AT   hotmail.com>
>To: karikesler   AT   hotmail.com

>Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 04:14:02 -0600

>Every time I feel myself getting sucked into the moralizing about Eminem I
>remember a few years ago when Bob Dole blasted Nine Inch Nails' "Man With a
>Gun" really taking it seriously in a way that demonstrated clearly that Bob
>Dole's advisors had not listened carefully to NIN's full body of work.
>And, of course, the controversy around the bizarre confusion that is
>Marilyn Manson, and even Madonna's masturbating on stage...ok.
>
>So, how can we say for sure that Eminem is any different, any more
>dangerous?  The thing that strikes me when listening to his songs is that
>he is tapping into something very Columbine-like in his lyrics that is
>key--very important--something that we should be paying a lot of attention
>to regarding white masculinity.
>
>Take "Stan" for instance.  Though 4/5ths of the song is in the voice of
>Stan the crazy fan, and Marshall Mathers shows up at the end to make
>suggestions about how the guy could avoid being psycho (even saying that he
>should treat his pregnant girlfriend better, btw)--through all of this,
>Stan's voice is really convincing, satirical or not.
>
>M&M is not unique as a person, of course, and he's expressing something
>that those "white middle class suburban boys" that listen to him identify
>with.  That to me is what is worth discussing about M&M.  How do his songs
>tie in to the general white male backlash against civil rights and
>affirmative action (all women, men of color), "political correctness" ie an
>attempt at respectful speech about people who have not been spoken to or
>about respectfully in the past, as well as the rise in the acceptibility of
>fundementalist christian hate-speech/action?  Because even though Eminem
>raps and is under Dr. Dre's wing, his social locations as a working-class
>white man code him in a particular--relevent--way.
>
>I agree with those on the list who say that it doesn't do any good to
>lambast his style or whether he is an artist or an "artist"... Also, what's
>the use in arguing about whether or not he should be "allowed" to say what
>he's saying...Censorship is not change.
>
>So. I personally think that moralizing is moralizing and it tends to have
>the same hysterical tone whether coming from Tipper Gore, Bob Dole, Lynne
>Cheney, Operation Rescue, NOW or the Feminist Majority. There has got to be
>a more effective way to discuss these issues and work toward social
>change...
>
>Karen

on 2/26/01 7:09 AM, Amy D. Richard at arichard   AT   MSAD52.K12.ME.US wrote:

> I don't know anything about hiphop and I don't know much about Eminem, but I
> am under the impression he can be pretty juvenile.  Also the only "rap" of
> his I know is "Stan" which was on the Grammys.  There wasn't really anything
> sexist in it-- except he did say "shut up bitch" and had his pregnant
> girlfriend tied up in the trunk of his car.

It's not Eminem's girlfriend in this song that is tied up and it's not
Eminem that tells her to shut up.  It's Stan.  We need to listen if we're
going to criticize.

> Personally, I plug into Guns N Roses for my male rage.  G n R don't rail
> against women, they rail against "bitches," '80s style.  Axl Rose doesn't
> want to kill his girlfriend (who was Erin Everly, by the way).

This is funny.  Do you remember the G'N'R song "I used to love her (but I
had to kill her)"?  Yes...G'N'R were misogynistic.  Take a look at the art
work in the liner notes for Appetite for Destruction."  They portray a woman
who has been raped and is about to be killed by a couple of monsters.
What's the difference?  Is G'N'R less offensive because their music is not
rap?  When we condemn this kind of "art," we at least need to be fair and
honest, if not well informed.

Marnie Binfield
Graduate Student in Women's Studies
San Diego State University

Sarah Cardin asks what Eminem's victory in the Cosmogirl contest "proves."
I'm not sure it proves anything, but it does strongly suggest that tens of
millions of adolescent girls and younger women are crazy about the guy.  I
think this opens interesting possibilities for classroom discussion: that
is, why are so many women attracted to Eminem?  I would offer three
possible reasons.

First, many if not most women feel an attraction, often a powerful one, to
what I would call "safely dangerous" men.  That doesn't mean they want to
be in a real-life relationship with a brutal or aggressive man, but if the
brutality and aggression are rhetorical and confined to a CD, they can be
enormously (perhaps morbidly) exciting.  The massive female market for
"true crime" books, usually featuring predatory males, can also be cited in
this context.

The second possible explanation comes courtesy of the nine-year-old
daughter of a good friend.  She told me she likes Eminem because "he says
what's on his mind."  What she took from his music was a validation of her
own assertiveness and outspokenness.  This reminds me of comments made some
years back, I believe by the feminist writer and critic Ellen Willis,
talking about her love for the Rolling Stones.  Willis contended that she
was always able to read beyond the message of songs like "Under My Thumb"
and "Brown Sugar," draw strength from the force and anger of the
performances, and, as a feminist woman, make them her own.  (I wish I had
this quote on hand; can anyone else provide it?)

Lastly, I recall an interview with a teenaged woman who was played the
Eminem song "Kim" and asked to respond to it.  She stated that she wished
her own boyfriend cared as much for *her*.  This may sound surprising, even
shocking, given that the song fantasizes a grisly murder; but "Kim"
actually runs the whole gamut of emotions, encapsulated in the line "I hate
you / Oh, God, I love you."  Perhaps some young women identify with the
idea of being the subject of such extreme attachment.  I think some may
also cast themselves in a "mothering" role, since Eminem often comes across
as rather a lost little boy (bullied, unloved, electroshocked), and his
diatribes against his mother -- which violate a longstanding hip-hop taboo,
incidentally -- are about as Freudian as they come.

I must say I have been very impressed with the diversity and insightfulness
of the posts on this subject.

Sincerely,
Adam Jones

Adam Jones, Profesor/Investigador, Divisi=n de Estudios Internacionales
Centro de Investigaci=n y Docencia Econ=micas (CIDE), Mexico City
ajones   AT   dis1.cide.mx
Executive Director, Gendercide Watch <http://www.gendercide.org>
Personal website: <http://adamjones.freeservers.com>

On Tue, 27 Feb 2001, MichaelSKimmel wrote:

> My uneasiness is about race.  Simply put, I think we're going after Eminem
> because he's white.  That means, for white critics, he's "safe" to go
> after.  It's easy and keeps us "pure."  There are hundreds of
> African-American gangsta rappers whose lyrics are just as offensive, and
> when we have criticized them in the past black cultural critics like Skip
> Gates have accused us of racism.  But Eminem is safe, because if we single
> him out, who can accuse us of racism?


 I think this is an interesting point. I think also that Eminem is
somewhat Elvis-y in this respect. He probably receives his accolades, his
TRL popularity, his adoration amongst teenage girls, because he's white.
What's missing, to my mind though, is any useful articulation of Eminem's
working-class identity. It is safe in US culture to criticize, dismiss,
ridicule, ignore  working-class culture in general (maybe especially
white). This is too short a space to talk properly about intersections of
race and class in popular culture, but I do think this is what makes
Eminem a "safe target"

> In my neighborhood, recently, I saw a little six year old boy wearing a
> T-shirt with a lyric from Snoop Dogg on it.  "Women Ain't Shit" said the
> front, "'Cept Bitches and Hos" said the back.

Personally, I wouldn't let my child wear this t-shirt any more than I
would let my six year old daughter dress like Britney Spears. But, you
only have to look at Snoop Dogg's videos to see that he is playing with
the "pimp" image. In my mind these parodies are much less
pernicious than
the current images of women performers (Christina, Britney, Jennifer
Lopez, etc.)

Jacqueline Ellis
jellis   AT   bates.edu

>Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 14:30:48 -0500
>From: Jacqueline Ellis <jellis   AT   ABACUS.BATES.EDU>

>On Tue, 27 Feb 2001, MichaelSKimmel wrote:
>
> > My uneasiness is about race.  Simply put, I think we're going after
>Eminem
> > because he's white.  That means, for white critics, he's "safe" to go
> > after.  It's easy and keeps us "pure."  There are hundreds of
> > African-American gangsta rappers whose lyrics are just as offensive, and
> > when we have criticized them in the past black cultural critics like
>Skip
> > Gates have accused us of racism.  But Eminem is safe, because if we
>single
> > him out, who can accuse us of racism?

But actually, even within hiphop, Em (like Necro and Cage) are considered
especially shockjocky, and being particularly gruesome is one of the
stereotypes of a white MC.

>  I think this is an interesting point. I think also that Eminem is
>somewhat Elvis-y in this respect. He probably receives his accolades, his
>TRL popularity, his adoration amongst teenage girls, because he's white.
>What's missing, to my mind though, is any useful articulation of Eminem's
>working-class identity. It is safe in US culture to criticize, dismiss,
>ridicule, ignore  working-class culture in general (maybe especially
>white). This is too short a space to talk properly about intersections of
>race and class in popular culture, but I do think this is what makes
>Eminem a "safe target"


He receives his accolades bc he's white?  I don't think so.  He won 2nd
place in the Rap Olympics, and that's judged from within the hiphop
community.  Sure, the record label and MTV invested in him in a certain way
because his whiteness guaranteed a certain level of curiosity/publicity.
The teenage girl thing, though, I'd attribute to him being so willing to
present himself as emotional / vulnerable.

About working class culture, I'll say that I think some feminist-identified
criticism misses the extent to which ideas on women's issues are a metaphor
within a broader discourse.  This is similar, I think, to tussles between
white feminists and West Asian feminists like Mona Mikael (sp?) on the issue
of veiling.  That doesn't mean that we shouldn't respond to sexism, but that
the response should be a little more sophisticated.

> >
>In my neighborhood, recently, I saw a little six year old boy wearing a
> > T-shirt with a lyric from Snoop Dogg on it.  "Women Ain't Shit" said the
> > front, "'Cept Bitches and Hos" said the back.

If that's what it said, it's a parody of Snoop, not Snoop himself.

Dear colleagues--

This is partly in response to Amy Richard's inquiry.

I would recommend an excellent resource for classroom teachers on the
subject of Eminem.  GLSEN (the Gay, Lesbian & Straight Education Network)
has a guideline entitled "Do Words Hurt?" that will help in planning a
discussion of Eminem in the classroom.  It is aimed at the high school
level, but certainly could be adapted for college use.  You can find it on
their web site www.glsen.org, under "resources".  In general, they have
some excellent resources for teachers for talking about issues related to
sexual orientation.  The guideline on Eminem provides many ways to
facilitate discussion without forcing students into a particular position
on this multifaceted subject.  In a college level course on gender it could
be used with many other resources, such as Mari Matsuda's or Judith
Butler's work on hate speech, for example.


Second,  Richard Kim has a good piece in the March 5 issue of The Nation on
the subject of Eminem; he has a follow-up piece in the March 12 issue.  My
favorite line from the March 5 column:

"Homosexuality is so crucial to Eminem's series of self-constructions (he
mentions it in thirteen of eighteen tracks) that it's hard to imagine what
he would rap about if he didn't have us faggots."


Jyl Josephson
Political Science
Illinois State University
jjosep   AT   ilstu.edu

>It's not Eminem's girlfriend in this song that is tied up and it's not
>Eminem that tells her to shut up.  It's Stan.  We need to listen if we're
>going to criticize.

>This is funny.  Do you remember the G'N'R song "I used to love her (but I
>had to kill her)"?  Yes...G'N'R were misogynistic.  Take a look at the art
>work in the liner notes for Appetite for Destruction."  They portray a woman
>who has been raped and is about to be killed by a couple of monsters.
>What's the difference?  Is G'N'R less offensive because their music is not
>rap?  When we condemn this kind of "art," we at least need to be fair and
>honest, if not well informed.


Thats right, I forgot about "Used to Love Her"-- it was on that crappy album,
"Lies" along with "One in a Million" where Axl Rose simultaneously disses
immigrants, gays, African Americans, police, radicals, racists, religionists,
con artists etc, etc.  That got quite a bit of public attention when it came
out.  Axl recanted by saying well "not everyone can be trusted with that
song" and that he already apologized for it on the album cover.  Come to
think of it. G N R played with Elton John at one point, too.  Huh.


Helene T. McGrath
Liberal Studies
Ohio State University

O.K., I've been following this whole Eminem thread (mostly to procrastinate,
and avoid doing things I should be doing, like revising the conference paper
that I have to present next week, and grading the papers I need to turn back
before I go), and I figured I'd put my two cents in before our esteemed host
tells us all to move on.

I brought up the issue of the Eminem thread to two people, one being my thesis
chair, and the other being my sister ( a sixteen year old self proclaimed
feminist, and Eminem fan); both of them I feel had interesting perspectives on
the issue.

My thesis advisor, a staunch eighteenth century scholar, quite simply laughed,
and then explained her view on things to me, which was amusing indeed.  There
is a small little boy throwing a temper tantrum, being baraged by feminist
scholars, men and women alike, all armed with very complex theoretical
apparatti, all of whom get into a competing war, to see who can examine the
boy with the largest, biggest and most complex apparatus that they can come up
with. It all becomes quite comic (I am considering drawing a cartoon, just to
procrastinate and waste even more time on the subject).  I mean when you look
at it all from that perspective, it comes down to to this: none of it matters,
Eminem will go on as he is if you love him, hate him, analyze him in extreme
detail, or try to be as complex as possible in addressing his construction of
white-working-class-male identity. This is an exercise being engaged in for
the sake of the theorizing, because it certainly going to have little to no
effect outside of the Ivory Tower. Lets face it, Eminem, will likely never
read anything you write, and he certainly doesn't care what you or I think, we
are not his audience.

My sister also had an interesting stance on the subject; as I previously
stated she is sixteen, and a self proclaimed feminist, who is a fan of Eminem.
I am continually in the process of negotiating intergenerational versions of
feminism, I don't get my sisters version of things, but I am glad that sixteen
year old girls are developing their own feminism, that is in many ways a
reaction to our current version of it.  I mean, my mother in law (second wave)
doesn't get my version of feminism either (third wave, borderline radical,
historical revisionist, marginally existentialist feminism). My sister said
quite simply that I was too old to understand (at 24), and that I would never
get it because I am to old and that you all are definitely too old to
understand.  "Eminem, she said "is about challenging the existing social
order, and pissing people off, who need to be pissed off because they are too
comfortable in their existence". "Don't worry" she said, "when the time comes,
we [the new generation of feminists] will deal with it, it isn't your
problem."

So that's it.

Samantha M. Cahill
cahil002   AT   csusm.edu

>From: "Samantha M. Cahill" <cahil002   AT   CSUSM.EDU>

I mean when you look
>at it all from that perspective, it comes down to to this: none of it
>matters,
>Eminem will go on as he is if you love him, hate him, analyze him in
>extreme
>detail, or try to be as complex as possible in addressing his construction
>of
>white-working-class-male identity. This is an exercise being engaged in for
>the sake of the theorizing, because it certainly going to have little to no
>effect outside of the Ivory Tower. Lets face it, Eminem, will likely never
>read anything you write, and he certainly doesn't care what you or I think,
>we
>are not his audience.

We who?

You know, as Tonto said to the Lone Ranger, we who?

And is the purpose of critical response to change the artist?  And for what
it's worth, I've heard someone speak on the influence on hiphop of scholarly
work; this was looking specifically at early 90's work though.