Grading and Writing Instruction

PAGE 2 OF 3
===========================================================================

At 12:11 PM 28/03/99 -0800, you wrote: (much snipped)
>Stereotyping and prejudice seem to be a product of clouded and
>uncritical thought--at least that is my experience. Once I broach the
>subject of heterosexism in class (I push it along by coming out in a big
>way, as I've stated before) and get the students to start talking about
>heterosexism, sexism, racism, homophobia and the the other awful "-isms"
>we are trying to eradicate, they seem to be glad to have the opportunity
>to learn and to dispel their own prejudices--most of them stemming from
>simple ignorance.

As a first-time, part-time, instructor, I can't tell you how relieved I am
at this discussion. I am teaching one course in a small rural university,
and had feared that the level of illiteracy, inability to think or argue,
and silo and stereotypic thinking I was encountering was, if not confined
to, at least worse in this location.
 
The vehicle matter for this final-year undergraduate course is related to
addictions: many of the students in the class repeatedly, despite
admonishments and pleas to use the spell-check and grammar-check aspects of
their word processing packages, mis-spell common substances such as
'tabacco' [sic] and 'heroine' [sic]. I am told I am a crank for raising
spelling, grammar, structure, and ability to present a coherent argument as
issues for concern--they are, it is implied, irrelevant to the course.
 
The thrust of the course is social welfare: one lecture last week dealt
with FAS etc. During the class discussion (following my presentation of
reams of research material) regarding the appropriate intervention for a
substance-using pregnant woman, about half the class firmly adhered to the
'lock her up' position. When I asked them how they would relate the state's
right to interfere with an individual's freedom in an acute situation such
as this on the one hand to the state's responsibility to provide pre- and
post-natal support, a healthy environment for women generally, a healthy
environment for pregnant women, and general health promotion and treatment
options on the other hand, I got blank looks. Didn't get it. Lock her up.
Dear heaven.
 
These are not stupid young people, but they are ignorant, illiterate, and
graduating.
 
 
Kathleen Kilburn                 kilburnk  @  vianet.on.ca
===========================================================================

On Sun, 28 Mar 1999 [Identity masked] wrote:
 
> But how many of you have had students complain about
> grades on papers, telling you, "Hey, this isn't an English class--you're
> not supposed to be grading my writing!"
 
Last semester, in a 300 level English class on the short story, I had a
student ask whether I was going to grade "grammar and mechanics." He then
went on to argue that I ought to grade the work of non-majors and majors
differently so that non-majors would not be penalized for "not knowing as
much grammar" as the English majors in the class. (He was not an English
major.)
 
> Somehow the idea that "writing"
> is a separate field of endeavor, like "English," has permeated...
 
What I find most frightening is that many students (at all levels) seem to
think that once they complete the "English requirement" at their school,
they can safely forget all that they ever learned in those classes.
 
Elvira Casal
ecasal  @  frank.mtsu.edu
===========================================================================

On Sun, 28 Mar 1999, Elvira Casal wrote:
 
> Last semester, in a 300 level English class on the short story, I had a
> student ask whether I was going to grade "grammar and mechanics." He then
> went on to argue that I ought to grade the work of non-majors and majors
> differently so that non-majors would not be penalized for "not knowing as
> much grammar" as the English majors in the class. (He was not an English
> major.)
 
I imagine most of us get such complaints regardless of our discipline. For
years now, my syllabus (in every class) notes that I will subtract points
for "language errors" (which includes typos, grammar, and syntax) in all
take-home exams, papers, and projects. When I cover the syllabus during
the first day of class, I tell all students two things:
 
1) When an employer or prospective employer encounters a job application,
memo, or written report that has errors, she/he is NOT going to ask about
the student's major or view non-English majors more sympathetically; and
 
2) if a student doesn't get a job (or loses one) after graduation because
she/he doesn't write well, don't slash MY tires ;-).
 
I've never had complaints and most students' writing improves after they
lose 5-10 points due to language errors on the first written assignment.
 
niki
 
 ---------------------------------------------------------
Nijole (Niki) Benokraitis, Professor of Sociology
University of Baltimore, 1420 N. Charles St., Baltimore, MD 21201
Fax: 410-837-6051; Voicemail: 410-837-5294; nbenokraitis  @  ubmail.ubalt.edu
----------------------------------------------------------
===========================================================================

Good Morning,
  
even if Joan might raise her voice about wandering off-topic (and
rightly so), I would like to add to the thread because it touches upon
an issue which irritates me more and more.
 
I am working as a student advisor and program assistant for a
scholarship organization which ships students and researchers back
and forth between the US and Austria (take a guess...).
 
In this position, I have a lot to do with standardized testing, i.e. the
testing monopoly of ETS and the test delivery monopoly Sylvan
Prometric. Besides the economic aspects, I am also worried about
the misuse of the tests within and outside the US. To come back to
the purpose of the list: does anybody know of a feminist critique of
standardized testing, especially of TOEFL, GRE and GMAT?????
  
ETS has apparently picked up on the problems schools have with
the (missing) writing abilities of their students. They made the
Analytical Writing Assignment an integral part of GMAT in 1994.
This coming fall, ETS will introduce the GRE writing assessment (not
part of the th general GRE, but a separate test). Starting last July,
the Test of Written English has been incorporated into the new
computerized TOEFL. So, all is going well? Not at all. It's just a
conitnuation of what has been described very precisely in one
message on the list:
 
> For most students, their idea of a paper is that stock formula (which does
> not lend itself to any depth of thought) of a "thesis" statement with
> three points, and three paragraphs to elaborate the points, and then a
> conclusion that basically repeats the thesis.

To make matters worse, one of the two "human" readers of the
GMAT essays has been replaced by a piece of software (see:
http://www.gmat.org/hotinfo.html), starting February 1999 (for
anybody who's interested, I have a research article about this
software from two ETS staff members. I can send that as attachment
on request). You should also look at what Kaplan has to say about
this:  http://www1.kaplan.com/view/article/0,1898,823,00.html [note:
this is not the URL Elisabeth Binder supplied.  That one no longer
works.  The URL I've supplied is related. JK]
 
I understand the need of ETS to constantly innovate to keep their
business in the good shape it is now, even though I am not
sympathetic to monpolies. Where I can get really angry is what it
does to international students. In order to contribute to the diversity
of an US campus, they first have to pass tests which are coming out
of a testing tradition that's alien to most European countries (and
many others as well). This is not to say that there isn't bad writing on
European campuses, but it's certainly not improved by tests that rely
so heavily on formulae and come from a different context.
  
I had quite a few discussions with ETS representatives and I didn't
get very far with my criticism of the kind of writing that's required. I
would very much appreciate any hints to ongoing research projects
about writing assessments other than the 30 minute analysis of an
issue type of questions, preferably with a feminist theoretical
background.
  
Thanks,
 
Elisabeth Binder
 
ejb  @  usia.co.at
===========================================================================

I would also like to know about this kind of information.  I
had been away from teaching for about 15 years and just
went back to it in the past four years.  So many of my
student papers, especially freshmen ones, are ungrammatical
and do not cite evidence for the arguments, even when the
papers are on a specified work of fiction.  I try to bring
this up in class with little effect, and have even had to
flunk a couple of students because they refused to do some
of the assignments if they did not like the assignment (even
in cases where most of the rest of the students gave me
written praise for the assignments). I would like encourage
them to improve but suggestions just seem to make them
angry (this is not everyone, of course, but more than half).
Does anyone have suggestions, especially in my case, for
Freshmen who are often the first generation in their family
to go to college?
Jan Bogstad bogstajm  @  uwec.edu
===========================================================================

To greatly oversimply the extensive and important
research that has been done in composition theory and pedagogy,
I want to encourage some caution in reducing the problems of
critical thinking to a need to correct for grammar and mechanics.
These problems are symptoms, not the core problem, and need
to be approached from that perspective.  Research suggests
that a student who grasps the fine points of grammar is not
necessarily an able critical thinker--anymore than someone with
excellent hygiene necessarily has a strong sense of style
or, more importantly, self-confidence.  Terrific advice has
been offered in the last few days.  Still, though I know all of
us are greatly overworked already, I want to encourage again
a consultation with writing program directors who can direct
you to the wonderful and accessible materials that have been
generated by writing across the curriculum programs.
 
 
--
Linda S. Coleman
Eastern Illinois University
cflsc  @  eiu.edu
===========================================================================

I want to address two postings here; first, Linda Coleman's suggestion
that faculty refer students to writing program faculty, and second,
Elisabeth Binder's note about automated testing of written samples.
 
Linda's points about writing problems are right on target, that is, that
the problem is not grammar and mechanics, per se, but deeper critical
thought. As an instructor in a writing program, I could not agree more.
In fact, even though I do stress grammar, it is usually only after we
plod through the more dense problem of the critical thinking part of the
process. And it often happens that once the thought begins to rise to a
certain level of sophistication (and this can be encouraged, though as I
said before, it is extremely difficult) that the grammar as well as the
mechanics often follow. At least, once we are "there," grammar questions
become easier to address.
 
I don't know what the resources are like at other universities in their
writing programs, but we have been working hard for years to have the
university provide us with facilities and staff for a writing lab, where
students could go to get some really substantive help with their papers,
concurrent with their work in the classes where they are writing those
papers! They continue to refuse, stating that there is no money for it.
Meanwhile, students suffer. Currently, our lab is composed of a couple
of staff members who graciously volunteer their time to help the few
students they can manage. And the ones who come to the writing "lab" are
in really bad shape. Many universities are simply not interested in
funding something that to them looks like a "remedial" program. At CU,
there is the idea that this is the state's "flagship" university, so to
have any remedial classes reflects badly on the school. Meantime,
students clearly need plenty of work--and you can call it whatever you
like--remedial, intensive, focused--but it's the same thing in the end.
They need help, lots of it.
 
Turning to the problem of automated testing, this is an issue that makes
me see bright red. Just one more thing--like the multiple choice
computer exam--that is creating and contributing to the very problem we
are lamenting here now. That this kind of computer technology may well
be used to "read" and evaluate student writing is a nightmare to me. A
year or so, here at CU, a couple of faculty in the psychology department
were hailed for developing one of these programs, that would alleviate
the need for professors, teaching assistants, or readers to actually
have to "read" student essays. The program would have to be "taught" how
to read a certain number of papers (by the professor, who would have to
process a certain number of papers in conjunction with the computer),
and then from there, the computer could "read" and grade the
essays/exams. This "reading" is nothing more than scanning for relevant
words, in my opinion. Even if such program could "read" (whatever that
means, if we are talking about the actions of a machine), of what value
is that to students? If I were asked to grade in such a way, I'd quit
teaching.
===========================================================================

Hi
 
I am a student at Chatham College in Pittsburgh. Someone mentioned a
required writing course at the first-year level. Chatham College requires a
2-semester first year writing seminar. The reason I am replying to this
thread is that the seminar was invaluable. I am proud to say that I am an
excellent writer, regardless of the course, thanks to that seminar. Also, I
originally complained about being *forced* to take the seminar, but in
retrospect, It made me the skilled writer I am today. I am a senior, and I
currently have a 3.84. The bulk of my classes do not test, but base the
grades on papers. The classes that do test usually use the midterm/final
format and assign at least 2 papers. I would encourage underclass students
to take a writing seminar if available at their institution. I also think
it would save a lot of frustration on the part of the student and the
professor. I would also encourage institutions to offer such classes. Also,
every college student should own a writing handbook--grammar, documentation
Thank you, I just wanted to offer the experience of a student.
===========================================================================

<<"you mean I have to write this like an English
paper?  This isn't an English class!">>
 
A come back: (for those who teach in English)
 
It is not an English literature course, but it is taught in English. Therefore
you have to know the language in order to learn the subject of this class.
 
Georgia NeSmith
gnesmith  @  aol.com
===========================================================================

<<Some turned in papers with no citations at all. What's a
girl to do?
Carolyn Wright>>
 
Flunk the poor babes. Being able to follow instructions is fundamental.
 
Georgia NeSmith
gnesmith  @  aol.com
===========================================================================

Though it may be tempting to flunk students for not making citations or
for poor grammar, this doesn't solve our problems. I won't flunk a
student unless he or she simply does not do the work (or does it so
badly that it hardly passes for an effort). Maybe that is a mistake, but
I think that, even though it creates more work for me, I must do
whatever I can to help them. Yes, they can be irresponsible,
incorrigible, among many other awful things--including being just plain
lazy--but my dedication to teaching and guidance far outweighs my need
to overpower and diminish them. For me, an "F" can also be a stand-in
for the "F"-verb (and I'm not talking about "Feminism" either), and I
refuse to give it unless it is really justified. Same thing with A's!
 
If we had an educational system that properly prepared students for what
they are expected to do in college, then flunking would be an option.
But in my opinion, it is not an option, nor does it solve any problems.
===========================================================================

Thank you, Georgia. I wondered if I was the only hard-ass. I tell my
students that I take proper documentation VERY seriously, that I will
fail them on the paper if they plagiarize (and I would consider no
citations as plagiarism) and that I _can_ fail them
for the course. I take points off the top if they do not have both works
cited and a bibliography/works consulted; I take points off the top if
they do not have at least a consistent citation format (I have all but
given up trying to get them to actually follow a style sheet); and I take
points off if the documentation is "merely" sloppy.
 
I teach adjunct in WS at an elite university and am regularly appalled at
what juniors and seniors hand in as research papers -- many tell me they
have not had to do a paper of more than 5 pages and that required more
than their opinions, emotions, etc.
 
The real world out here is not nearly as gentle or forgiving as academia,
and no one does students any favors to pretend that sloppy writing and
sloppy documentation will be acceptable on the job. I work in the
nonprofit public interest sector and accuracy, clarity, and integrity are
absolutely required.
 
Anyway, that is my two cents worth to this thread.
 
Patrice
 
Patrice McDermott
patricem  @  CapAccess.org
=============================================================================

I've a few points to add to the already wonderful suggestions about grading
student writing -- but I want to say first how heartening it is to hear
teachers from across disciplines insisting on good writing in their
classes, and expressing interests in contributing to students'
writing-education.  You might be surprised at the welcome you could get if
you contact an English prof. at your institution with "can you help me
teach my students to write well in my classes?" rather than "I have a whole
class full of students who all took comp but don't have a clue about what a
sentence is -- what are You teaching them Over There?"  :)
 
[Identity masked] wrote:
 
> But how many of you have had students complain about
>grades on papers, telling you, "Hey, this isn't an English class--you're
>not supposed to be grading my writing!"
 
This gets sadder when it comes from students in my English classes -- even,
occasionally, upper-level majors (Grab Hair, Pull Out).  I now make sure
that even my lit syllabi state early on that being able to communicate what
you learn in class is co-essential with learning the information in the
first place (is, indeed, a *way* of learning it), so we will be spending
time on writing.
 
Ever since my own first panicky grading session came with a sophomore lit
class whom I had assumed were capable of writing a basic analysis essay
(bad assumption), I have vowed never to teach a class in which I don't do
at least 1-2 full class periods' worth of talking about writing; in which I
don't do at least three writing assignments (there's just not enough time
with two, I think, to learn and recover from a poor first showing, so even
if that first assignment is something tiny and narrowly focused, I try to
have it happen early); and in which I don't provide at least some
assignment structures that require students to engage in prewriting and/or
drafting and/or revision.  Yes, you lose out on course "content."  Yes,
students (and faculty, and deans) in "content"-based courses resist.  Yes,
it can take more grading time, in some ways.  But by the time the papers
have come in, as [Identity masked] points out, you've lost a significant opportunity to
teach them what they need to know, or to emphasize how serious you are that
they need to know it.  Moreover, after a surprise "bad set," both teacher
and student are often too frustrated to come back to constructive feedback
and revision.
 
It can be "cart pushing horse," as [Identity masked] says, to teach "content" and
"writing" at the same time  (assuming that the division exists as such).
But it can also be immensely effective, as long as one lowers both sets of
expectations a notch or two in order to achieve a more satisfactory merger.
 
 
When I had that grading crisis (10:30 pm on a Tuesday night in grad
school), I was lucky enough to be able to call my writing-teacher father,
who -- as might one of the writing teachers at your university, or as might
posters on this list -- said I needed to think about _categories_ of
comments.  As Susanne Luhmann wrote:
 
>when it comes to grading i use a multi-level approach: i write some
>comments onto the paper, my final comments contain something positive
>about the paper, something they need to work on and some comment that
>responds to their argument. i also use a grading sheet. this grading sheet
>reflects the evaluation criteria that we have discussed in class prior to
>them handing in the assignment.
 
Now, when I was a high school senior, I loathed my teacher's "check-off"
grading sheet, which had points listed for each five-paragraph-essay "task"
(5 points for opening "hook," two points for each "stick of evidence,"
etc.).  But as a teacher I've found that both presenting students with a
few categories or criteria, and then using them as I grade, can be quite
helpful.  I now often do a variation on Jeanne Ludlow's heuristic, and
frequently hand out a description thereof to my students.  Sometimes I
divide comments by criteria:  say, thesis/focus, evidence/analysis/insight,
organization/coherence, and style/mechanics.  Sometimes I divide them by
the revision approaches I'm encouraging: strengths to replicate in the next
essay, serious communication problems that must be repaired, alternative
structures or styles worth giving some consideration to, patterns of
grammatical errors.
 
If I write a sentence or two for each, I both reduce my sense of being
overwhelmed, and respond to research that suggests that students only
process 3-5 comments before themselves becoming overwhelmed.  This also
allows me to suggest alternatives even to the class's top writers, so they
too can see writing as a process of revision and learning.
 
 
Finally, Carolyn Wright wrote:
 
>Some turned in papers with no citations at all. What's a
>girl to do?
 
With fluent upper-level writers, I've taken to threatening them vividly
beforehand with vast dire consequences (I'm developing a particularly good
rant about how sloppy proofreading is an insult to the teacher, as well as
being the easiest possible way for a teacher, employer, or opponent to
dismiss the writer's ideas outright).  I try to reinforce the idea that
though I'm a nice woman who's really more interested in their ideas than
their mechanics, I don't have time to fix their sloppinesses in areas where
they Knew Better.  When that doesn't work, I give full comments and a
grade, but explain that I won't record the grade as anything but "zero"
until they've written in the citations or fixed a rash of run-on sentences.
I don't flunk them -- but don't tell _them_ that.  ;)
 
With less-fluent writers, citation forms are the least of my worries,
irritating as it is that they're not following instructions.  (I try not to
go pink in the face over apostrophe errors in these cases, too, though that
is sometimes a harder task!)  I mark grammar/citation problems, but my
comments focus on other issues that more directly interfere with
communication ("What DO you want to say here?").
 
(I should say that lack of *any* citation, or other forms of plagiarism,
always evoke more direct action on my part.  But that's another story.)
 
The only "Flunk-em" policy I've ever taught under with some contentment was
in a tech writing course for a resume assignment.  If there's a document on
the planet wherein an entire life can be changed by the writer's minor
errors, that's gotta be it.  Nearly everything else in life can be revised
or will have small errors overlooked -- but application documents are often
a one-shot deal.  (Even then, though, I let students who "flunked" do a
"revision" that I promised I would consider if their grade was borderline,
just to keep the learning process going.)  Nikki's got a point, though: of
the critiques I make, expectations of clean grammar gets the least flack,
because that's what many of them think English (and only English) is about,
anyway -- and "good grammar" is a _product_ they understand, something
they're willing to purchase even at some GPA price.
 
Sorry to go on so long -- but thanks for the great discussion.
 
shelley
 
    *****
Shelley Reid
English Department, Austin College
(Home of the Fighting Kangaroos)
Sherman, TX  75090
SREID  @  austinc.edu
    *****
===========================================================================

With all due respect for those who like their gluteus maximus tough
rather than tender, I won't disagree that having standards is important.
And I am appropriately tough in my classes. Very much so. At the same
time, being a "hard-ass" doesn't always do much for advancing students'
knowledge. Being willing to help them because they are woefully
unprepared isn't soft--but it may be compassionate. I'd like to help
them realize their potential, rather than cut them off at the knees.
 
Yes, the "real" world is tough. Maybe we can help them navigate their
way through it by showing them a few things. Their heads may be hard,
but they aren't impenetrable.
===========================================================================

I'm with [Identity masked].--at least to a point.   When students see a terrible grade on
a paper, they sometimes just toss it in discouragement without giving it any
serious attention, and sometimes with a bad attitude (their opportunity to
say "FY" back to us --of course it only hurts them).  But they don't learn.
 
When students give me a paper where some aspect--say documentation--is so
abominable that it is clear that they just don't "get it," I believe in
giving them at least one more chance to "get it."  I hand the paper back
without a grade, tell them that it is unacceptable and that I will not grade
it until it conforms to the requirements of the assigment.  Sometimes when
grammar or mechanics are unacceptable, I refuse to read it again until
they've been to the Writing Center with it.  On other matters, if I feel
that they need or merit tutoring, I tutor them.  If not, I send them back to
their handbook, text, etc.  I offer them the opportunity to show me their
next draft to see if they've "got it" before turning it in.  Once they turn
it in again, however, they get whatever grade the paper merits.  And yes, at
that point, I will give an "F" for plagiarism,  for failing to fulfill the
assignment by being off-topic, or for writing and mechanics utterly
unacceptable at the college level.  And if they DON'T respond to my offer of
a second chance, they get a 0.  "Unacceptable" isn't just a rhetorical
stance.
 
Linda Payne
University of South Alabama
lpayne  @  jaguar1.usouthal.edu.
===========================================================================

In the classes that I currently teach, documentation and citations are
not an issue. I teach writing workshops. But if citations and form were
a part of the work, of course I'd demand that they be done properly. In
the past when I've taught classes that required a term paper or
appropriately documented essay, I required proper form. I'll be teaching
a course in the fall that will be incorporating experimental and
collaborative writing using hypertext/hypermedia, so students will have
to cite their research.
 
But when we say "writing," I think we're talking about two different
issues here--mechanical problems and citations are things that can be
learned quickly from books. Students can figure out how to emulate the
Chicago Manual of Style without a problem. What I'm talking about are
conceptual problems, problems about formulating ideas and expressing
them. Understanding of critical concepts, the ability to analyze and
argue, to make an assertion ... these are the issues that concern me
most, and which seem to be at the heart of the problem. Frankly, I'd
much rather see a student be able to develop a moderately sophisticated
analysis of a problem than learn to do proper footnotes. I want to
encourage them to use their minds, and to find out what a joy that can
be. When they get into the "real" world, knowing how to express an
original thought will be a lot more useful to them than knowing this or
that citation style. And if they are accustomed to developing original
ideas, they won't be plagiarizing, that I can guarantee. Plagiarism is
nothing but laziness ... and original thought necessarily nips that urge
in the bud. And it should be flunked--most every university has that as
a stated policy. Plagiarism and cheating are punished severely, as they
should be. I'm all for that.
 
Many universities and colleges (mine among them) do not have a bona fide
writing lab or writing center to support student writing. I know it is
amazing that a university of this size--25,000 plus--would not have that
resource, but we don't. So who is left to teach writing? Writing
instructors, who are already working hard with their own students, and
the English department? I don't think so!
 
And on the issue of grading, I find that as soon as I place a grade on
the student's paper, they stop learning. It is as if they can finally
heave a sigh of relief, regardless of the outcome. As long as I keep
that grade out there, dangling, they'll work harder. I require revision
after revision, and then we decide that by the fourth or fifth revision
that it's time to assign a grade. Students are ready for it. And then,
once they receive that grade, they'll ask me if they can rewrite the
piece again for a better grade. And I say, "Absolutely." I figure if
they want to work on the essay even more, I'll be happy to see them
improve. And they usually do. Many of them step up to the plate and do
much better work. If the essay is significantly better, I'm happy--no,
overjoyed--to raise the grade.
===========================================================================

At 03:21 AM 3/29/99 -0400, Niki Benokraitis wrote:
 
>1) When an employer or prospective employer encounters a job application,
>memo, or written report that has errors, she/he is NOT going to ask about
>the student's major or view non-English majors more sympathetically; and
 
I'm very glad to hear that faculty outside the English department are
insisting that their students write well.  Such external reinforcement
makes my job as a composition instructor much easier.  Thank you for your
efforts.
 
To justify good writing with threats of rejected job applications, though,
would seem to imply that the proper goal of education is to get a good job.
 Granted: employment is important, especially to our students; and bad
business writing may damage one's job prospects.  Nevertheless, many
successful people are incompetent writers, and most students know this.
Thus, the example is unpersuasive and overly narrow.
 
The message that students need to hear from all their teachers is this:
that how they write determines what they write.  Any distinction between
writing and its content is specious.
 
For example: a student who challenges a low grade on a badly written essay
by saying "Well, you knew what I was trying to say" has misunderstood not
only the assignment, but also the purpose of communication.  If the
patience and skill of the reader excuse the incompetence of the writer,
then why write at all?  The assignment becomes nothing more than a charade.
 
Similarly, my student who wrote an essay about the poems of "Emerson,
Whitman, and Emily" (would that this example were fictional!) must be made
to understand that his diction reveals an underlying sexism that undermines
his credibility.  To correct the student's diction without addressing the
underlying sexism would be to treat the symptom but not the disease.
Likewise, to require excellent writing without a proper justification would
be to risk missing the point of it all.  Too many students think of good
writing as verbal etiquette: using the wrong fork, using the wrong
verb---what the heck; tell it to Miss Manners or someone who cares. These
students need to learn that good writing is more than a superficial virtue.
 
---Justin
 
Justin A. Pittas-Giroux
Dept. of English
College of Charleston
66 George St.
Charleston, SC 29424
(843) 953-6588
===========================================================================

Linda S. Coleman referred to the material that is available from those
who have developed "writing across the curriculum" programs  (excuse me
for paraphrasing; didn't want to repeat the long -ish message in my
reply/query)
 
Does anybody know of a website perhaps that makes some of these materials
available?  We have been discussing the necessity of implementing such a
program, but no one has ever offered a plan or procedure for doing it.
As eager to reinvent the wheel as we are at our college ;-)  a precedent
to follow might be helpful for us.
 
I (we) struggle with so many of the issues that have been discussed on
this thread!
 
Cecilia Winters
Manhattanville College
===========================================================================

Justin Pittas-Giroux wrote:
 
>For example: a student who challenges a low grade on a badly written essay
>by saying "Well, you knew what I was trying to say" has misunderstood not
>only the assignment, but also the purpose of communication.  If the
>patience and skill of the reader excuse the incompetence of the writer,
>then why write at all?
 
Two quick points:
 
First, on the serious side:  I find it effective to explain to student
writers that American Academic Writing is constructed as and expected to be
writer-based.  That is, we expect the writer to do the work (we more rarely
toss down a physics book in disgust saying "I guess I'm just not working
hard enough at this" than we do while thinking "why is this text so
confusing?").  This is not a "natural" thing; academic writing in other
countries/cultures, and other kinds of writing in US cultures, are more
reader-based.  (Students of mine from Japan say of American Academic Prose:
"This is how we talk to children; it's insulting to explain so much to an
adult reader."  And poetry, for instance, even in the US, can be incredibly
dependent upon the patience and skill of the reader.)
 
Seeing analytical writing as the product of social/cultural expectations,
and of individual choices in response to those expectations, is not just
useful for teaching writing, but fits right in with women's studies
approaches to other forms of information and communication.
 
 
Second, with more humor:  There's a collection of short-short-short science
fiction stories that I heard about or ran into some years ago.  (Or maybe
it's just urban-mythical, but the story works anyway.)  One story is
"Science Fiction On A Planet Of Telepaths," and the entire story is "You
Know What I Mean."  When students are certain that others can read their
minds, they will then be relieved of the need to demonstrate clearly what
they say; until then, we struggle with the slippery, sometimes clumsy,
often powerful mediator of language.
 
shelley
 
    *****
Shelley Reid
English Department, Austin College
(Home of the Fighting Kangaroos)
Sherman, TX  75090
SREID  @  austinc.edu
    *****
===========================================================================

Thank you Justin for letting me know that I am not unique in knowing what
diction means.  So many faculty members think it means enunciation that I
have considered that another good word was being destroyed by the
ignorant, and diction was joining the list of infer, peruse, scan, nice,
cohort, decimate, giant, sport and others that have lost precision in the
hands of those who have little use for accuracy.
 
Wm W. Pendleton
Department of Sociology
Emory University
Atlanta, Ga. 30322
socwwp  @  emory.edu
404 727-7524
===========================================================================

Actually, the word *diction* has three meanings, according to Webster's:
one is "verbal description"; another is "choice
of words especially with regard to correctness, clearness, or
effectiveness"; and a third is a) "vocal expression:  enunciation" and b)
"pronunciation and enunciation of words in singing."
 
Therefore, using *diction* in the sense of *enunciation* is far from
ignorant.
 
M. Charlene Ball, Administrative Coordinator
Women's Studies Institute
Georgia State University
Atlanta, Georgia
404/651-4633
wsimcb  @  panther.gsu.edu
http://www.gsu.edu/womenpower
 
I dwell in Possibility --
A fairer House than Prose --
            (Emily Dickinson)
===========================================================================

>>Though it may be tempting to flunk students for not making citations or
for poor grammar, this doesn't solve our problems. I won't flunk a
student unless he or she simply does not do the work <<
 
In Carolyn's case, she had not only made it clear that she required footnotes,
she also painstakingly showed them how to do it. She apparently had spent
considerable amount of time making her expectations clear to the students. The
problem wasn't, simply, that some students did it wrong, it was that some
students didn't do it at all--didn't even attempt.
 
Now, I have taught various forms of writing (from remedial through coaching
doctoral students) for over 20 years, and I agree with [Identity masked's] process-centered
approach. However, I also believe that if we require something of our
students, we must have in place some way of sanctioning their failure to
produce it. I became a hard-ass after realizing that students have become
accustomed to teachers who say they require something and then don't sanction.
The students have gotten away with it before, why not this time, too?
 
Also, I have found upon questioning students individually, that they admit
that what they produced was a half-assed effort, but since they knew they
could revise, they just turned in what they had. Or it becomes clear that the
students didn't really think I was serious about requiring something. Thus
they produce more work for *me,* since I would be constantly reading and
spending hours commenting on stuff they already knew was wrong. To me, that is
exhibits not only laziness on their part, but downright disrespect for the
teacher.
 
>>When students see a terrible grade on
a paper, they sometimes just toss it in discouragement without giving it any
serious attention, and sometimes with a bad attitude (their opportunity to
say "FY" back to us --of course it only hurts them).  But they don't learn.<<
 
They don't learn, either, when teachers don't sanction work that doesn't meet
very clearly specified requirements. IF there are no reall sanctions, all they
learn is that they can get away with not learning.
 
I personally do not grade, either, until the end of the term, because the
whole idea is that they are supposed to learn *during* the term. I, too, grade
portfolios. But if, in the end, the students do meet the criteria I have
established from the very beginning, and which I have very patiently tried to
teach them how to meet, then, they fail. Most often they fail because they
haven't taken advantage of, or listened to, the very patient instruction and
attention they have been given throughout the term.
 
>>When students give me a paper where some aspect--say documentation--is so
abominable that it is clear that they just don't "get it," I believe in
giving them at least one more chance to "get it." <<
 
And what do you do when the end of the term comes and they still haven't
"gotten it"? Do you give them an incomplete?
 
<<Frankly, I'd much rather see a student be able to develop a moderately
sophisticated
analysis of a problem than learn to do proper footnotes. I want to
encourage them to use their minds, and to find out what a joy that can
be. When they get into the "real" world, knowing how to express an
original thought will be a lot more useful to them than knowing this or
that citation style. >>
 
And sometimes that "real world" *does* require them to know how to do proper
footnotes. Suppose your students want to go to graduate school? Or maybe they
don't think so now, but decide later? Do you think you have done them a favor?
Of course, original thinking is the most important, but I think it is also
terribly important that they learn how to *present* their ideas. When we
decide *not* to teach them something, we are failing them ourselves. Also, the
implication is that they are *incapable* of learning proper presentation.
 
Moreover, as I said in my original brief post, "following instructions is
fundamental." If in the "real world" a boss gives them an instruction that
requires attention to specific details in those instructions, and they ignore
those specific details, what do you suppose will happen? It's not simply a
matter of knowing how to do citations a particular style! It's a matter of
paying attention!
 
Georgia NeSmith
gnesmith  @  aol.com
===========================================================================