Students Who Deny That Problems Exist

The following is a discussion of how to respond to students who deny 
that gender problems exist in media representations (or in life more
generally).  It took place on WMST-L in May 2001.  Two earlier,
related WMST-L discussions may also be of interest:
Teaching Students to 'Get It' (October 1999) and 
Have Women Achieved Equality? (July 1998).  For additional WMST-L
files now available on the Web, see the WMST-L File Collection.

Hello, This is a long post - sorry

Yesterday in Persuasion in Contemporary Culture I introduced the "isms" that
exist in advertising and mass media. (We will be discussing persuasion in
advertising and mass media for the last 2 weeks of this course.)  I was
shocked at the level of denial that existed in my students. Most are seniors
and 1/3 are repeat students of mine from Gender and Pop Culture courses.

This surprised me because they had just written papers on the rhetoric of
social movements and part of the assignment was to address the power
structures, ideologies, and hegemony that the movements were fighting!

Some of the opinions I encountered included:
1.  White heterosexuals do not have "privilege."  After all, as majority,
they have right to have the power.
2.  When I commented that I wanted to see someone on TV that "looked like
me" one student replied that she did not want to see old, wrinkled bodies on
TV - it was an escape from reality and she would rather see blonde and
beautiful.  She also said that she needs to be the same.
3. It is OK for the rich to make the decisions. Money = power = normal.
4. Whites are oppressed just as much as people of color (reverse
discrimination also) "I come from South Boston, and I am a white male, and I
can't get a job as a police officer because only Blacks and women are
allowed."
5.  Women and people of color are equally represented on TV. (Examples given
were Buffy, Charmed, Friends, reality shows, Talk shows, Judging Amy,
Sisters, WB and UPN, and Sports.)
6.  Everyone can afford a computer.
7. Minimum wage is enough to live on.


I have been to the List Archives and found info on minimum wage the self
sufficiency report. I also downloaded the table about PROBLEMS MINORITY
STUDENTS FACE ON A PREDOMINANTLY WHITE CAMPUS but I need the citation(s)
that support underrepresentation of gender in mass media. (They do not SEE
it themselves!!

If anyone has this information, please send along. I want to address these
issues on Monday.

Thanks

Tess Pierce
tess  @  etresoft.com
kick-ass liberal curmudgeon

sorry, tess -- no citations.  however, you might want to look at peggy
mcintosh's "unpacking the invisible backpack" on white privilege.  you
also might see if you can get your hands on dreamworlds to show them....
good luck!
alyson

Dr. Alyson R. Buckman
Visiting Assistant Professor of English
Suite 61573
Austin College
Sherman, TX 75090

<http://www.departments.bucknell.edu/res_colleges/socjust/Readings/Mcintosh.html>

Holly  (U/Maine)

hol31  @  umit.maine.edu

Hi Tess,
maybe the study  by Children Now referred to in this (fairly recent)
article may be of help. I am sorry to have lost the url, but this
article was found at
in the news section of IMDiversity.com's women's village
http://www.imdiversity.com/daily_News.asp?ID=5
friendly greetings,
Semira Dallali
vidabo  @  wanadoo.nl
the Netherlands

Study: White Men Continue To Dominate Network Television
The Associated Press
AP Television Writer
LOS ANGELES (AP)

More than a year after the major TV networks agreed to better reflect
America's ethnic mix, broadcasters continue to marginalize minorities
and women, according to a new study.

Overall, network television remains a white man's world, the advocacy
group Children Now concludes in its study of ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox, UPN and
WB. The group conducted a similar study of the 1999-2000 TV season.

[Most of the rest of this article has been deleted, since it is
protected by copyright.] 

Children Now, based in Oakland, is a nonpartisan group that focuses on
the needs of American children.
On the Net:
Children Now: http://www.childrennow.org
National Association of Broadcasters: http://www.nab.org

I can't help with Tess's question, but just felt so strange when I read the
student opinions.  I have been working with the same perceptions here in
Nebraska, having returned to my home state after 25 years in more liberal
climates. After my Intro to WS class last year, I felt like a failure.  The
only students I had who moved past denial were those who weren't in denial
to begin with.  I thought it was because Nebraska was such a conservative
wasteland.  That Tess is encountering the same attitudes on the other side
of the country is discouraging.

Dr. Sandra Block, Associate Dean
Central Community College
Box 1024
Hastings, Nebraska 68902-1024
(402)461-2479
"We're all in this alone."
Lily Tomlin

tess, i'm sad to say you are not alone in this experience (as i'm sure
others on the list will affirm)...

i now start ALL my classes, in the first introductory class period
following explanation of the syllabus--be it women's studies, political
science, sociology or whatever--with the "nine-dot-square" puzzle (3
rows of 3 dots you have to connect by using 4 contiguous lines)--i have
found that  as we get into issue content it makes even the most
resistant/stepford-enculturated students willing to CONSIDER in a
conscious way that 1) there's something they're not "seeing" and/or 2)
that SOME social dynamic of which they are unaware has placed a
perceptual barrier where none actually exists--i often refer back to it
when we get into the denial-type discussions, and (praise be!) sometimes
one student or another brings it up her/himself!...

i have also found that they are also noticeably more open to looking at
the "myth" vs actual facts-and-figures instead of the total shut-down
that often happens when one of these inequality-status-quo-enforcing
myths is challenged...

debbie <louis  @  umbc.edu>

Forwarded from a colleague in journalism, Kim Pearson, who is not on the
list:


Here are some links that might help.

FAIR Women's Desk: http://www.fair.org/womens-desk.html
Mediachannel.org Issues Guide on Women's Media:
http://www.mediachannel.org/atissue/womensmedia/index.html
Their guide on Sex, Race and Sports:
http://www.mediachannel.org/atissue/olympics/index.html
Newswatch: http://newswatch.sfsu.edu/
Prospecting Among the Poor:Welfare Privatization :
http://www.arc.org/welfare/prospecting.html

i liek pop quizzes.  Here's one on race and education:
http://www.arc.org/Pages/EQuiz.html
The documentary Dreamworlds II is useful, but I like to pair it
with Black Feminist Thought.

Kim

Forwarded by Janet Gray, gray  @  tcnj.edu

The frustrating teaching experiences persuading students that privilege is
operative in the world that Tess Pierce and others on the list have
reported, seem to be increasingly common.  That is why when I prepared the
new edition of my text Race, Class, and Gender in the United States (5th
edition - St. Martin's/Worth 2001), I included a section called
"Discrimination in Everyday Life."  This section reprints news stories
documenting contemporary examples of racism, sexism, class privilege, and
hetersexism and homophobia.  In the text, I place this section after two
sections that offer theoretical frameworks for making sense out the world.
The first includes articles which describe the ways difference is socially
constructed and the second includes selections that describe systems of
oppression and their interaction.  I have found that presenting the material
in this order and following up with graphic newspaper accounts of current
examples of racism, sexual harassment, etc (some article titles: "Racism at
Texaco," "Doctor Refuses to Treat Lesbian," "Home Depot Pays $87.5 Million
for Not Promoting More Women." etc) is an effective way of getting through
to students who have grown up in a political climate that teaches them that
there are no social problems only individual successes and failures (both of
which are usually deserved).

Paula Rothenberg, Director
The New Jersey Project on Inclusive
Scholarship, Curriculum, & Teaching
William Paterson University
Wayne, NJ 07470
phone (973) 720-2296 fax (973) 720-2974
rothenbergp  @  wpunj.edu

Tess, I second the suggestions to use the products of the Media Education
Foundation (Dreamworlds, Tough Guise, Killing Us Softly, etc.).  These
films have had the effect of strong caffeine on many of my students --
woke them right up.  Some like to challenge the films, of course.  But
you can use that. (I had one student whine about "Tough Guise" that the
examples were outdated -- who watches _The Godfather_ anymore, she
asked!! When I explained, she backed down).
 
You also might want to look at an article called "Media Images, Feminist
Issues" by Deborah Rhode.  The article was written in 1995, so your
students may whine about "datedness," but only the dumbest will really
think that six years is "a long time ago."  The article is in an
anthology called _Women: Images and Realities_, 2nd ed., eds. Kesselman,
McNair and Schniedewind.  At my university, it's very easy to find this
book -- it's one of the standard texts used for WS classes.  Perhaps a
copy can be easily found at your school, too.  Rhode's essay is a very
factual, information-heavy history of women's representations in the
media -- particularly broadcast news -- from the 1940s to the present. 
She covers such issues as women's relegation to "weather girl" status, or
their being used only to cover "women's stories,"  and the dearth of
women's news issues in general, even right now.  She also unmasks the
print media's tendency to refer to women only by their relationships to
men or children ("widow killed in beating";  or the one I heard last
week, "Mother to climb mountain."). 
 
I teach in the "heartland" of America -- rural northwestern Ohio, where
liberals are about as rare as teeth in a hen's mouth.  These materials
knock the smug complancy clean out of most of my students, and may do the
same for yours.
 
Then of course there's always the direct-address tactic:  ask them who
benefits from their ideas.  Since your students include a guy from South
Boston who yearns to be a cop, I'm guessing you aren't dealing with
upper-class students.  Deconstruct their own class status, and show them
how they're supporting *their* oppressor by believing the b.s. they told
you about rich folks' having a "right" to all the power.  How Tell them
about Gramsci's theory of hegemony, and how the rich use culture to "gain
the consent" of the little guys. That will most definitely knock the wind
out of some of their sails. 
 
I also think it would also be extremely effective if you telephoned the
South Boston police department and asked them how many white men are
employed there.  You might also look around the internet for statistics
about the *national* race/gender makeup of police departments.  Then you
can throw that number right back at your student, which will shut him up
on *that* topic.  I had a student once make some absurd remark about
black men being more criminally-inclined than white men.  Two hours on
the internet, looking at websites about death row statistics and racial
prejudice in the court system, and I was able to disprove every single
one of his comments.  He was genuinely chastened, and I never heard him
make another remark of that nature again. (Of course, what he thinks in
private is another story -- but at least now he knows that his bigotry is
easily knocked down by the authority figures in his own life, which will
permanently destabilize his complacency about his correctness).
 
Hope you can find something of use here.  Good luck.
 
Ilana Nash
Bowling Green State University

On Fri, 18 May 2001 11:18:39 -0400 Ilana Nash <inash  @  BGNET.BGSU.EDU>
wrote:

> The article was written in 1995, so
your students may whine about "datedness," but only the dumbest will
really think that six years is "a long time ago."

I deal with this problem often.  In the opinion of many of my students,
1995 equals approximately one thousand years ago.  When a "dated"
reading presents facts, I try to do the background research for updated
information, or better yet, I ask them for current examples of the same
problem and whether they see any difference (this is particularly
useful on the question of media images of women of all races).

I see this datedness phenomenon as part of the myth of pure progess
that tells them, when it comes to issues of equality, that everything
about our society is better today than it was 5, 10, 25 years ago.  A
student in my intro class last semester argued passionately that the
ERA failed to be ratified because society wasn't ready for it in the
early 1970s; today, it would sail through the amendment process.  When
I posed the question, then why hasn't it?, she was at a loss.  She
couldn't imagine that the year 2000 could be more conservative than the
1970s.

I don't argue that changes haven't been profound, but I do try to get
students to see that social change only results from struggle, a
continuous process. My challenge is to help them to see themselves as
part of the struggle.

I also wonder whether students complain about the "datedness" of the
material they read in non-WS classes.

Cheers,
Maria

--
We do not have a right, in the name of social justice, to bore people
to death.
(Assata Shakur)

Maria Bevacqua, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor
Department of Women's Studies
Minnesota State University
Mankato, Minn.  56001
ph (507) 389-5024
fax (507) 389-6377
maria.bevacqua  @  mnsu.edu

hi tess -- michael moore (of ¿roger and me¿ fame) had a television 
series, don't know the name or what network it was on, but he 
demonstrated on at least some of the episodes the extent to which 
¿isms¿ operate in the u.s.  i am thinking of one show in particular where 
a black man, in nyc(?), wearing a suit and tie, was unable to hail a cab, 
while any number of weird and-or hazardous looking white (or white 
looking) people were successful.  some examples regarding class could 
easily come from his book ¿the big one¿

hope this helps,
joyce altobelli

Here is [Michael Moore's] web page.  You can order former episodes from there.
 
http://www.michaelmoore.com/

It might be helpful to pull apart these assumptions your students are
making.

> Some of the opinions I encountered included:
> 1.  White heterosexuals do not have "privilege."  After all, as majority,
> they have right to have the power.

That sounds democratic, if heterosexuals have a majority vote.  You could
ask your students how they see heterosexual men and women using their power?
And if they see gender differences.

> 2.  When I commented that I wanted to see someone on TV that "looked like
> me" one student replied that she did not want to see old, wrinkled bodies
> on TV - it was an escape from reality and she would rather see blonde and
> beautiful.  She also said that she needs to be the same.

I'm sure it's quite normal to want to look at beautiful young bodies and
faces. I wonder why this young person feels she needs to be blonde and
beautiful.

> 3. It is OK for the rich to make the decisions. Money = power = normal.

Do you think they should side with the poor?  Are there some real* reasons
why these students would take this view?

> 4. Whites are oppressed just as much as people of color (reverse
> discrimination also) "I come from South Boston, and I am a white male, and
> I can't get a job as a police officer because only Blacks and women are
> allowed."

If you happen to be the white male who has had to give up his "right", would
you not feel that way?

> 5.  Women and people of color are equally represented on TV. (Examples
> given were Buffy, Charmed, Friends, reality shows, Talk shows, Judging
> Amy, Sisters, WB and UPN, and Sports.)

Should you group these two together - women and people of colour? If 10% of
the population is black, or gay, should 50% of the programmes represent
them?  Is there something else that is as important as quantity?

> 6.  Everyone can afford a computer.

 What does this tell you about the kind of students in universities,
assuming these are typical of the general student population?

> 7. Minimum wage is enough to live on.

Is living on a low wage the main problem, or are there other problems that
people on low wages have to tolerate?

Hope this helps!

Sue McPherson
sue  @  mcphersons.freeserve.co.uk

A sociology of gender textbook by Claire Renzetti and Daniel Curran ((Women,
Men & Society, 5th ed.--there may a more current one) has a chapter on the
media with references to many, many studies that show bias in the media's
representation based on gender (and race and age). Most of the studies may be
early to mid 90's but I seem to remember that there were some comparisons
over time that might help illustrate that it is unrealistic to assume that
things have changed completely.  The textbook is a great all-purpose back-up
for studies and stats to back up points.

No time to look it all up, but here's one finding cited:

ten-year study-Annenberg School of Communication at University of
Penn.--prime time television-women play only about one out of every three
roles--was the same in 1954
source:  Gerbner, 1993; see also metzger, 1992)

One recent cite is from a 1997 study-"some increase in representation of
women in t.v., but women are more likely to play minor roles" Signorielli, N.
 "A content analysis: Reflections of girls in the Media" Menlo Park, CA:
Children Now and the Kaiser Family Foundation.

Maybe the students would be more empathetic if they talked to the
low-paid workers around them at their college/university, or
maybe they would respond to reading testimonies from them.

My son was in the Harvard student sit-in for a Living Wage (about double
the minimum wage) [3 weeks in the President's office ... lot of food brought
over by the dining hall workers ... no showers], and their website
includes statements by custodians, guards, dining hall workers,
etc. They are a bit Harvard-o-centric, but still worth reading.
The workers' statements are at
http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/~pslm/livingwage/newworkers.html
and at
http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/~pslm/livingwage/originalpage/part3.html --
and if you are disheartened about the values of students these
days, look at some of the rest of the site at
http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/~pslm/livingwage/portal.html . Activism
lives!  (and yes, I'm very proud of my son...)

Also, try Barbara Ehrenreich's new book NICKEL AND DIMED: ON (NOT)
GETTING BY,
Metropolitan Books, 2001; ISBN: 0805063889

Phyllis

--
Phyllis Holman Weisbard
University of Wisconsin System
Women's Studies Librarian
430 Memorial Library, 728 State Street
Madison, WI 53706
608-263-5754
pweisbard  @  library.wisc.edu
http://www.library.wisc.edu/libraries/WomensStudies/

Dear Tess Pierce,
Because we screen films and participate in many discussions about media
representation, we have heard the reaction you describe as well as
experience students very receptive to discussions of gender, race and class
in the media. When the students want to believe that the media shows a fair
or much improved representation of women, race or economic status, we have
found it helpful to have students write down two lists, one in which they
as individuals are a target group for any forms of oppression and another
list in which they are a non target group.  After they list how they are
non targets-- e.g.,middle class, an English speaker in an English speaking
culture, even the most resistant students can usually find something on the
target list, i.e.,"adultism"-- not being taken seriously because they are
too young. Then when they explore what it feels like to be a target group,
they seem more receptive to discussing racism, sexism and classism in the
media.  There are some other activities, suggested in Gail Dines section of
the study guide for our documentary, "Beyond Killing Us Softly: The
Strength to Resist" (you can download it from our website
www.cambridgedocumentaryfilms.org ) One very effective excercise is for
students to keep a log and classify all the images seen in a finite amount
of time, such as one hour of television. When the students compile it
themselves, they seem more open to analyzing what they are really absorbing
from media.  We have also noticed that students seem more open to seeing
media bias when they see strategies for resistance, rather than being
overloaded only with examples of the problem. I think that's most likely
true for all of us, when you see strategies for fighting back you are
willing to take on the work.
Thanks,
Margaret Lazarus
Cambridge Documentary Films, Inc.
P.O. Box 390385 Cambridge, MA 02139-0004
ph (617)484-3993  fx (617)484-0754
www.shore.net/~cdf
cdf  @  shore.net

    Yes, Tess, as others who replied to you said, the attitudes you found
are all too common. What immediately came to my mind when I read your post
was the Ed student years ago that she didn't care that there are wealthy
people as long as she gets enuf for herself.
    Keep in mind the many  'feel good' news reports that make readers feel
they're much better off than (you name it) and the barrage of TV, sports and
movies that train people to go for visceral moments of excitement rather
than thought provocation, the individual who  'made it despite ...' and
self-made man stories.
    I think it helps to concretize. Try these: Have your students work out a
budget living on minumum wage - food, housing, utilities, health care (free
clinics? where are they? lose a day's pay to wait)
    Yes, women are represented on TV. The question is - How? What is the
message about women that the programs are sending? Is that what their own
lives are all about? Other women they know?
    It's hard to see that you're privileged over others when you are. You
might ask, if they were African American, would they be where they are in
that school, in a job they have the house or apartment they live in? Would
their parents, relatives and so on be in those places/
    How come so few women are in Congress? Think of sex-segregated
occupations (e.g, clerks, automobile mechanics, zoo keepers and day care
teachers - and comparable pay) who teaches what in your school  and ask why?
    Some of these are class issues, but that's a point to discuss.
    I expect you'll get some 'blacks are lazy', 'culture of poverty' 'women
prefer' sorts of responses. Try to unpack those for the students. Why they
think so? Why does Where do these ideas come? A question that helped many of
my women students (not all) was whether they could afford they house they
bought or want if they didn't have a husband to help pay for it. And for
men, you might ask whether they could have the career they have in mind and
children without a wife to do the housekeeping, care for the children. Could
either afford paid domestic help if they paid (the woman) as much as they're
paid? Why should she have less social goods than they have, e.g, food,
health care.
    I'd heard about the taxi problem, was concerned but there's nothing like
personal experience to drive home a problem. It hit me  just last year in
New York City. I'm white (tho I've heard many people say Jews are
off-white). My friend, a colleague in Michigan, her mother, brother and
young adult son - African Americans - were leaving my house after brunch. I
went out with them to get a taxi. As the driver approached, he saw who I was
with, swerved to the other side of the street. He'd come close enough for me
to see his license number of the roof of the cab, wrote it down and
complained to the taxi commission. At the hearing, it turned out that the
driver is South Asian. He was found guilty, fined $300. I wonder who gets
the money.
    Hope some of this helps.
            beatrice
bkachuck.cuny  @  prodigy.net

"The Electronic Storyteller" is a video available through Media Education
Foundation that does a nice job dealing with media representations around
race and gender and their impact. The video features George Gerbner and
cultivation theory.  It seems to circumvent some of the "media doesn't
affect me" discussion. I have found it to be quite useful in class.

www.mediaed.org

Molly Dragiewicz
Women's Studies and Cultural Studies
George Mason University

mdragiew  @  gmu.edu

> I think that's most likely
> true for all of us, when you see strategies for fighting back you are
> willing to take on the work.
> Thanks,
> Margaret Lazarus
> Cambridge Documentary Films, Inc.

You are missing something in your analysis of the problem and with the
solution you suggest. Students may be in denial of the problems, but it
is possible some of them are aware and have made choices about how
to deal with them.  The world is not a perfect place, and people are only
human and they will work towards towards improving their own lot in life,
and maintaining the power of the groups they belong to.

Trying to make the world a better place is a never-ending task and there
are numerous ways of going about it. Students can analyze this stuff
in the classroom but when it comes to actually doing something about
it the situation changes.  Sometimes it seems that Women's Studies
is becoming like the traditional system it was intended to change.
Instead of the focus being on men, and men's knowledge and men's
interests,Women's Studies focuses on women's.

Look at Tess's examples.  Look at example # 3, for instance.  "It is OK
for the rich to make the decisions. Money = power = normal."  Are
students unaware when they go along with this thought?  Or are they
assuming/hoping they will one day be among the rich and powerful and
be able to make decisions that will benefit women and the oppressed?
Or do they go along with it for their own benefit, so they can have a nice
life teaching women's studies?

Emily Martin, Woman in the Body, states that it is more likely those at
the bottom of the ladder who will speak out as they have the least to lose.
Women find ways to resist, but in the end, we are all acting within* this
system and must find ways of living in it, and that means compromising
and letting some things go.

So when you talk about denial, and awareness, you have to consider where
a person is acting from and what they stand to lose or gain.  But let's quit
pretending everyone is doing everything they can. And take a look at Tess's
examples and try and figure out what the significance is behind them.

Sue McPherson
sue  @  mcphersons.freeserve.co.uk

I can't imagine anyone believing that everyone is doing everything they
can. A basic analysis of who benefits from what, makes it clear that many
of us benefit from maintaining the status quo and thinking that media
representation is on the whole, fair, and equitable (particularly young,
affluent students). But you can't be saying that we should give up trying
to find ways around the blocks of denial. It is possible to do this for
some people, clearly not everyone. I am constantly reminded of my process
of struggling with lack of awareness and denial when people teach me about
racism, or the change that happened for me when someone taught me to look
at myself as only "temporarily able bodied."  While strategically it is
critical to figure out where personal effort should be expended and where
it will be wasted, it is mistake to assume when we encounter initial lack
of receptivity that is an immutable state.

Another problem we need to address is how to motivate those of us who are
willing to learn about or already understand the inequity in media
representation and understand the damage it causes. Even people who are
ready to struggle feel overwhelmed if all they hear is a litany of
complaints and are not exposed to concrete strategies of resistance.

Margaret

>So when you talk about denial, and awareness, you have to consider where
>a person is acting from and what they stand to lose or gain.  But let's quit
>pretending everyone is doing everything they can. And take a look at Tess's
>examples and try and figure out what the significance is behind them.
>
>Sue McPherson



Cambridge Documentary Films, Inc.
P.O. Box 390385 Cambridge, MA 02139-0004
ph (617)484-3993  fx (617)484-0754
www.shore.net/~cdf
cdf  @  shore.net

    Sue is right to say that it is "possible" that students are aware of
problems and have made choices about how to deal with them. But the claim
that particular attitudes and/or behavior is a human attribute overlooks the
reality that these are socially constructed/influenced  (e.g., that humans
will work toward maintaining the power of  the groups they belong to).
Women's Studies is a source of influence and it seems to me Tess was
struggling to be an influence counteracting others. I think we all know of
changes in people's attitudes and behavior in our own time and place and in
others. Why shouldn't Women's Studies be a source for change? We should try
that - for the good. I'm glad Tess does. (OK, I'm not defining 'good' but I
think the changes Tess want are good.)
    No, we can't change behavior outside a classroom, but we can change
attitudes that lead to behavior changes. Forming ideas and attitudes is
basic in education, with the expectation that behavior outside of school
will follow accordingly. We get that from Day 1 in kindergarten as well as
other sources.
    That formula 'money=power=normal' Tess cited evidently came from a
student or students, so whoever said it is aware of it. That set of
relationships is obviously socially constructed. History is replete with
examples of challenges to the formula, where power the power element is
interpreted as power over people. We need to analyze what has motivated the
challenges, the results and what we want our challenge to lead to.
                beatrice
                bkachuck.cuny  @  prodigy.net