Young Women and "Feminism"

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I have been reading the postings on contemporary feminism and the distancing
of young women and men from the label. While I think this is true in general
(the distancing), I think we forget that young women and men DO identify and
embrace the term feminism. I have been interviewing young women and men across
the country for the last three years and have little trouble locating them. I
also wanted to add to the discussion of third wave philosophies that there are
lots of scholars out there arguing that there is NOT a definite third wave
happening right now. (Just as there is a very interesting critique going on about
the wave model of feminism) I am not sure if I agree but it is interesting to
think about. I do know that most of the young feminists I talk to do not see
themselves as "third wave." Of course, they are not representative but again -
something interesting to think about....

Jo Reger
Oakland University
Sociology and Women's Studies

For what it's worth, my experience has been that most of the young women
who come into my classes resisting the "feminist" label soon get over it
and embrace feminism in both name and substance.  In fact, often they end
up resenting the way they have been scared and manipulated away from the
label/identity "feminist," and thus *wanting* to take it on -- in much the
spirit of "we are the women your mother warned you about" . . .

Rebecca Whisnant
University of Dayton

I second what Rebecca is saying. Additionally, I have been quite concerned
by the fact that some women on THIS LIST-who TEACH women's studies-- are
backing away from  using the word feminism.  Feminism is not, in my opinion,
about individualist choice-- thus a rose by any other name does NOT smell as
sweet, or rather- perhaps the point is that it does smells sweeter, and thus
sells better than the bitter? word feminism.

Have I missed something or is there no longer a necessary
ethical/political/epistemological connection between *women's studies* and
FEMINISM?  If we call ourselves  feminist scholars and educators aren't we,
or shouldn't it be the case that we are teaching the *conditions* of choice
and not just endorsing choice for its own sake? In which case, the
*conditions* in which some women choose not to label themselves feminists
need to be interrogated; the implicit needs to be made explicit.
List-members have already participated in this process by exploring the
fears that women have of identifying with feminism.

In my view, the fear of feminism is not a third-wave phenomenon; in some
fundamental ways it is no different today than it has always been- as
Bronwyn and others have pointed out- it has to do (and this is absolutely
obvious in the case of my sheltered, New Hampshire, white, catholic, mostly
first generation goign to college-students) with women's fear of challenging
male dominance- and that rooted in deeper fear of not being desirable to
men- and of course there are a complexity of reasons for this (as one of my
students put it the other day when i did my "stereotypes of feminism"
exercise-- women fear losing the one realm of "power" they have)-- and of
course men fear women challenging male dominance...

I realize, too, that there are other  reasons that some groups of women
resist the label feminist.  Some women are also possibly repelled by a
feminism that is entrenched in white, middle class establishment
bureacracies and professionalisms--and feel "What have you done for me
lately?"
 but that reaction is definitely a different tendency than that manifested
in the particular student population that I teach, and also different from
what some of my brash feminist students call "thong feminists"- the "I can
wear a thong and be a feminist too" group of feminists (and be in the Vagina
Monologues too- which by the way is sometimes an event run by women who
disclaim the connection to feminism) who distance themselves from the OTHER
"hairy, square, bulldyke" feminists...

And the implicit critique of establishment feminism is also different from
the "this is what a feminist looks like" feminist, when the latter PR
campaign is motivated, not by the incentive of displaying the pluralism and
diversity of feminists and feminisms, but (also?) by the desire by the
"good" feminists to distance themselves from the "scary" "other" feminists-
ie. the "bad" feminists that are still critiquing male dominace (this is
literally how some women understand their use of this slogan)-- the
"lesbian"-coded feminists (whether they are in fact "practicing' feminists
or not)--It is so important for those of us positioned as "Mentors" to not
distance ourselves from the "scary" feminists--i.e to say, oh that is only a
stereotype and media creation, for example.   However, a principle of
practice is not a strategy. Thus having a political/ethical stance that
deconstructs "scary" feminism, does not mean coming into the classroom and
saying hello, "I"m a feminist, and that means, I'm a ball buster" :-)
(On the other hand, this does work for at least one feminist teacher I have
known.....)
In other words, putting a radical stance into a practice that inspires
rather than repells students, in a conservative climate, involves an
intensely complex labor.  However, as Rebecca testifies, and as my own
experience shows, it can really be done.

Kathy Miriam
kmim  AT  earthlink.net

There's an excellent piece by Elaine Hall and Marnie Salupo Rodriguez in
Gender & Society - "The Myth of Postfeminism" 2003. vol 17: 878-902.
And also Pamela Aronson's "Feminists or 'Postfeminists'? Young Women's
Attitudes Toward Gender and Gender Relations" in the same issue of G & S
pp. 903-9ww.
As i say, about the depiction of young women's portrayal as uninterested
in feminist issues, in my text The Sociology of Gender 2005 "This
fundamental [media] misrepresentation of women's attitudes toward
feminism is consistent with earlier media failures to provide audiences
with accurate, complex descriptions of the women's movement." (p.39)

I think Rebecca and Kathy have made some good points.
I do think that it's not necessarily bad for young
women to develop their own terms to name their
politics, and it may be that "feminism" isn't a useful
term for some of them.  However, I've been surprised
to see in my class this term a number of
self-proclaimed feminists who wear "This is what a
feminist looks like" t-shirts (a big deal on this
conservative, Lutheran campus).

Re. the desire to distance themselves from the "scary"
feminists -- I assigned Charlotte Bunch's "Lesbian in
Revolt" to my class, and was interested in the
responses to it.  Many of my students blamed Bunch for
the stereotypes of feminists as man-hating, but most
responded with the argument that a separatist movement
could never succeed in creating social change.  They
were clear that they wanted a feminism that could
include as feminists men and heterosexual women.  At
the same time, some of them (who identified themselves
in their papers as heterosexual feminists) really
appreciated the article and found that it challenged
them (I've encouraged them to pick up the gauntlet and
develop a heterosexual feminist theory).

I was at first disappointed that they didn't find
Bunch's analysis as powerful and liberating as I had
when I first read it, and that they quickly separated
themselves from her.  But as I think about what
happened in that classroom, I realize that my students
are wrestling with feminist theory and developing
their own.  And I thought that was pretty good
considering our location in the red state of South
Dakota, a state that has all but banned abortion and
has banned gay marriage, and on a campus that has very
few courses on gender (and nothing that is expressly
Women's Studies) and on which senior women feel
enormous pressure to announce their engagements and
get married immediately after graduation.  These women
(and a few men) are taking significant risks by
wearing feminist t-shirts and allowing feminist theory
to challenge their lives.  In this case, I think by
calling themselves "feminists," they are in fact
identifying with "scary" feminists.  They are a prime
example of women who could choose to call themselves
something else, in order to separate themselves from a
more "militant" image, and yet they do not.

Jessica Nathanson

Jessica Nathanson, Ph.D. American Studies
Concentration, Women's Studies
Instructor, English and Gender Studies
Augustana College
Kilian Community College
janathanson  AT  yahoo.com

  I find that my experience has been identical to that
  of Rebecca.

  Arnie

  >For what it's worth, my experience has been that
  most of the young women
  >who come into my classes resisting the "feminist"
  label soon get over it
  >and embrace feminism in both name and substance.

Arnie Kahn
Psychology MSC 7401
James Madison University
Harrisonburg, VA 22807

I would be interested in the critique about the wave model of feminism Jo
Reger is referring to. Could you or people who know about it eleborate on
this or give references to it?

Many thanks,
Anna-Katharina Pelkner
National University of Ireland, Galway
Women's Studies Centre

----- Original Message -----
 > I also wanted to add to the discussion of third wave philosophies that
there are lots of scholars out there arguing that there is NOT a definite
third wave happening right now. (Just as there is a very interesting
critique going on about the wave model of feminism) I am not sure if I agree
but it is interesting to think about.

 Jo Reger
Oakland University
Sociology and Women's Studies<

one short, useful piece is Radford-Hill's "'Keepin' It Real': A
Generational Commenary on Kimberly Springer's 'Third Wave Black
Feminism?'" in Signs 2002

see also Sara Evans' Tidal Wave about feminist activism during the last
forty (or so) years.

laura kramer

Anna-Katharina Pelkner wrote:

>I would be interested in the critique about the wave model of feminism Jo
>Reger is referring to. Could you or people who know about it eleborate on
>this or give references to it?

I'm hoping that Jo Reger will add to her comments especially as related
to this statement:

> I do know that most of the young feminists I talk to do not see
> themselves as "third wave."


How do they see themselves?  What are their main issues?  How do they
defend the term Feminism?

Many thanks,
Marilyn Grotzky
Auraria Library
MSCD Women's Studies

You might want to check out Michelle Jensen's review of Manifesta in The Nation at

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20001211&s=jensen

It's from 2000, and many listers' references to Third Wave materials
are more recent.  But Jensen does capture many of the themes present
in Third Wave writings and activism and the critiques of them.

Maria

Maria Bevacqua, Ph.D.
Associate Professor and Chair
Department of Women's Studies
109 Morris Hall
Minnesota State University
Mankato, Minn.  56001 USA
maria.bevacqua  AT  mnsu.edu

> I would be interested in the critique about the wave model of feminism Jo
> Reger is referring to. Could you or people who know about it eleborate on
> this or give references to it?