Women Buddy Films

The following are responses to a query on WMST-L about "women buddies movies."
The responses were offered in July 1993.  For additional WMST-L files now 
available on the Web, see the WMST-L File Collection.

 
I have a faculty member who wants to look at Women Buddies movies.  Besides
Thelma and Louise, Fried Green Tomatoes, and Steel Magnolias do you have any
other suggestions.  Someone thought Moscow Doesn't Cry for Tears? might be
considered.  What say ye?  Thanks!
 
Jami Peelle
Special Collections Librarian
Kenyon College
Peelle    AT    KENYON.EDU

 
Dear Jami
        Perhaps you and your colleague would want to try thinking farther
back in time.  There must be some old melodramas that fit this bill.  A sug-
gestion that is somewhat against the grain is to consider Gentlemen Prefer
Blondes.  There is a reading of this as a female buddy movie by Lucie
Arbutnot and Gail Seneca in Patricia Erens, ed., Issues in Feminist Film
Criticism (Indiana: 1990), "Pre-Text and Text in Gentlemen Prefer Blondes."
You may not find it persuasive but it's interesting to consider.  Let me
also reiterate my previous recommendation that people interested in
A Question of Silence look at the essay on that film in the same volume
by Mary C. Gentile, "Feminist or Tendentious
?  Marleen Gorris's A Question
of Silence."
Cynthia Freeland
phil7    AT    jetson.uh.edu

 
There is a wonderful Canadian film, Strangers in Good Company, about
some senior citizen women who bond when their tour bus breaks down.
 
Jerome Nadelhaft
University of Maine
Nadelhft    AT    Maine

 
Regarding Women Buddies Movies request:
Crimes of the Heart (actually, sisters movie), Beaches, The Women,
Entre Nous, Bagdad Cafe, Mystic Pizza . . .

 
Mystic Pizza.  And another fairly dreadful one with Julia Roberts in a female
band (also starring Liam Neeson) whose name escapes me but I'll check it out
in the video shop tonight.  And I would include Enchanted April.  Going *right*
back (I certainly haven't seen it for 20 years), wasn't A Taste of Honey (Rita
Tushingham) in the genre?  And, a few years back, Letter to Brezhnev?  Others
are hovering in the back of what I like to call my mind - I'll dredge them up
eventually!  Sara.
 
           *******************************************************
           *  Sara Champion M.A., D. Phil   *  I have spread     *
           *  Department of Archaeology     *  my dreams under   *
           *  University of Southampton     *  your feet;        *
           *  Southampton SO9 5NH, U.K.     *  Tread softly,     *
           *  email: stc AT uk.ac.southampton  *  because you tread *
           *  Tel: 0703 557031              *  on my dreams.     *
           *******************************************************

 
People looking for movies suggestions might want to check out the wonderful
feminist film reviews provided by Linda Lopez McAlister. They are
available through the WMST-L listserv (listserv    AT    umdd.umd.edu), or
through inforM's Women's Studies database. Instructions for accessing
the database follow.  [NOTE: Several paragraphs of instructions for how 
to use telnet, gopher, and ftp have been deleted, since they no longer 
apply. Linda McAlister's WMST-L film reviews are now on the Women's Studies
Database web site at http://www.mith2.umd.edu/WomensStudies/FilmReviews/ .]

 
Paula Gaber
inforM
Coordinator, Women's Studies Database
gaber    AT    info.umd.edu
(301) 405-2939

 
What about the two Bette Midler films--the one with Shelly Long where
they pursue the man that two-timed them and the one with Lily Tomlin
where they are twins?  Sorry I can't remember either name.
 
Irene Goldman
00ICGOLDMAN    AT    BSUVC.BSU.EDU

 
Here are a few to consider:  The Turning Point; Personal Best; Desert
Hearts (I take a broad view of the term "buddies'); do you want to deal
with Cagney and Lacey?; Leaving Normal (I think).
 
It would be interesting to see a whole list.  Are there any from the
40's or 50's?
 
Pat Russo
Edu. Foundations
State University of New York
College at Oswego

 
Another--Passion Fish.

 
>What about the two Bette Midler films--the one with Shelly
>Long where they pursue the man that two-timed them and the
>one with Lily Tomlin where they are twins? Sorry I can't remember either name.
 
  #1 -  Outrageous Fortune
  #2 -  Big Business
 
 
Also how about 9 to 5 (1980) with Fonda, Tomlin and Parton.
 
*****************************************************************
                  Susan Kullmann Puz
                  Women's Studies Program
                  CSU, Long Beach
                  skpuz    AT    beach1.csulb.edu
****************************************************************

 
And Julia (Vanessa Redgrave, Jane Fonda).
 

 
Gail Hackett, Ph.D.                         atgxh at asuacad.bitnet
Division of Psychology in Education         atgxh    AT    asuvm.inre.asu.edu
Arizona State University
Tempe, Arizona 85287-0611                   (602) 965-3329
 

 
From the 1930s:   _Stage Door_(1937)
                  _The Women_ (1939)
 
Gary W. Daily
History Dept.
Indiana State Univ.
Terre Haute, IN
hidaily    AT    ruby.indstate.edu

 
> Mystic Pizza.  And another fairly dreadful one with Julia Roberts in a
> female band (also starring Liam Neeson) whose names escapes me...
Do you mean "Satisfaction", the hideous debut vehicle for Justine Bateman?

 
Try STEAMING, a British film, with Vanessa Redgrave and a great cast of women.
 
Bob Bender
University of Missouri-Colmbia

 
  Just to avoid confusion Cynthia Scott's NFB not-exactly-a-documentary is
called "The Company of Strangers" in Canada but is called "Strangers in
Good Company" in the U.S.  Same film.
 
     No one has yet mentioned Agnes Varda's wonderful "One Sings, The
Other Doesn't" (France, 1979).
 

 
Yes, thanx, Satisfaction *is* the dreadful movie I meant.  No-one has mentioned
A League of their Own but it fits.  More to follow!  Sara.
 
 
           *******************************************************
           *  Sara Champion M.A., D. Phil   *  I have spread     *
           *  Department of Archaeology     *  my dreams under   *
           *  University of Southampton     *  your feet;        *
           *  Southampton SO9 5NH, U.K.     *  Tread softly,     *
           *  email: stc AT uk.ac.southampton  *  because you tread *
           *  Tel: 0703 557031              *  on my dreams.     *
           *******************************************************

 
Antonia and Jane :  A British film released last year>
 

Karen Holbrook                      e2cs009    AT    fre.towson.edu
Psychology Department         office : (301)689-4742
Frostburg State University
Frostburg, Maryland 21532
+--------------------------------------------------+

 
I just saw a movie on cable "wings for Holly" or something like
that--bonding about 2 women; one dying from cancer and another who is an
uptight fast-track woman in business who comes to nurture her artist
friend in her last months.  Needs tissues, but worth adding to the list.
 
Whoever asked about the women buddies list--please collate them and make
them available to us all.
Naomi Graetz (Ben Gurion University)
graetz    AT    bgumail.ac.il

 
How about Antonia and Jane, Mermaids, Beaches (which is bad, but is a female
buddy movie)?
 
Lynda G. Lippin
v1757g    AT    templevm

 
Another in the genre of "Satisfaction" and "Mystic Pizza" -- "Shag."
It's about four high school seniors on spring break.  Not entirely
revolting.
 
Mary Wallace
University of Alabama, Tuscaloosa
mwallac3    AT    ua1vm.ua.edu

 
Thinking about women buddy movies, if you include Shag (ugh), you may also want
to include the old 60's movie "Where the Boys ARe".
Robin Yaffe
ryaffe    AT    moe.coe.uga.edu

 
Trying to extrapolate from the suggestions made on the list so
far, you'd be hard pressed to answer that question.  It seems to be coming
down to any movie with women who are friends or lovers.  But that's not
parallel to what a male buddy movie is.  So I went today to one of my
favorite reference books, Annette Kuhn and Susannah Radstone's "Women in
Film: An International Guide" to see if there's an entry for Women's Buddy
Film.  Alas, there wasn't.  But there are related articles, such as:
AMAZONS, WOMEN'S FILM, HEROINES, FEMINIST INDEPENDENT FILM, etc.  Anyway, I
 recommend the Kuhn book for all you movie
buffs out there. It was published by Fawcett Columbine in 1990.  Linda
 
P.S.  I just thought of one that hasn't been mentioned yet that surely IS
a women's buddy movie because the friendship between the women is the
central focus of the narrative (which would be a necessary condition for
calling something a women's buddy film in my book) Claudia Weill's
"Girlfriends."

 
        I'm not sure if this helps any, but in one of Alison Bechdel's
_Dykes to Watch Out For_ cartoons, one of the characters has the
following rule about what movies she'll watch:  1. it has to have at
least two women in it who 2. talk to each other about 3. something
besides a man.
 
Lyn Ellen Thornblad Burkett
lburkett    AT    ucs.indiana.edu

 
The film "On Guard" (1983) is surely a women's buddy film. It is about
four women who sabotage a reproductive engineering plant. It was made in
Australia, directed by Susan Lambert, produced by Digby Duncan and is
distributed by Ronin Films.
Jan van Bommel

 
what about the ophra winfrey movie "women of something street"?

 
this topic is great fun!  I'm glad we don't have to use the criteria
that a women's buddy movie is the equivalent of a men's buddy movie--do
we?  Surely the film Lianna, or is it Lilianna would fit the definition
offered by LynEllen T.B.  I think it's a Canadian Film Board offering.
 
The Oprah film is Women of Brewster Place--very interesting point.  Is
this the first one suggested that's about women of color?
 
Pat Russo
Elementary and Secondary Education
SUNY Oswego

 
I don't think "Women of Brewster Place" is the first picture we've
mentioned about women of color, but the reference to Oprah Winfrey made
me think of "The Color Purple," which made me think of Whoppie
Goldberg, which made me think of "Sister Act."
 
But, the more I think about it, the more I think that none of these
suggestions work.  "Women Buddy Film" seems problematic.  For the term
to make any sense to me, the film should be about two (maybe three)
women on some adventure, and they bond in a special way because of
that shared adventure.  Although a few of our suggestions fit that
description, the genre of male buddy film doesn't seem changed
radically by female lead characters instead of male.  So, if we're
going to define a female-bonding picture, why describe it in
relation to a male genre?  The correlation doesn't even seem to
work that well.
 
I have no problem with placing women in traditionally male roles;
in fact, it is refreshing.  Yet, are we talking about that?  Or, are
we talking about a uniquely female genre, for which there is no
male equivalent?  If so, what do we call it?
 
Mary Wallace
University of Alabama, Tuscaloosa
mwallac3    AT    ua1vm.ua.edu

 
Lyn Ellen Thornblad Burkett helpfully writes:
 
 
>         I'm not sure if this helps any, but in one of Alison Bechdel's
> _Dykes to Watch Out For_ cartoons, one of the characters has the
> following rule about what movies she'll watch:  1. it has to have at
> least two women in it who 2. talk to each other about 3. something
> besides a man.
>
> Lyn Ellen Thornblad Burkett
> lburkett    AT    ucs.indiana.edu
 
 
On the basis of this reasonable definition, I withdraw my suggestion
of _The Women_(1939).  This movie has an all female cast, not a man
to be seen, *BUT* men in the form of husbands, prospective husbands,
and philanderers are (as I remember it) the main subjects of this
still very interesting film.
 
I would be interested in seeing some of the reasoning behind the
choices people are suggesting as Women's Buddy movies.  So much film
analysis is from the perspective of the creators--their personal
backgrounds, the culture in which they work, the historical context
in which a particular movie is made.  Isn't it true that there is
very little in the literature, beyond theory, that really attempts to
examine the audiences (individually, collectively, or as cohorts)
taking in these creations?
 
Thus my interest in hearing from the "audience" on Women's Buddy
movies.
 
Gary Daily
hidaily    AT    ruby.indstate.edu

 
Why must "women's buddy movies" be parallel to men's?  To be consistent with
feminist approaches, it would/could be appropriate to redefine the genre.  No,
sorry, I don't have another answer to the question.  I'll leave that to the mov
ie buffs or lit crit feminists.    beatrice

 
I will add a movie to the list.  It is "Leaving Normal", which came out
I believe in 1988 or '89.  The movie flopped at the box office, but has
done rather nicely in the video market.  I highly recommend it.
 
iana
"angela%bchem.dnet    AT    dxi.nih.gov"

 
    When I think of men buddy movies, I think of Butch Cassidy and
the Sundance Kid, Vanishing Point, The Sting, etc.  There is an element
that we also see in Thelma & Louise, and that is, they become somehow
outlaws, outside the law, so that they have only each other to rely on.
This fits for 9-5 as well, and Outrageous Fortune, Big Business.
It becomes us against them, sometimes with triumphant results but
usually with disaster.  That's why Butch and the Kid have to die at
the end, (like Bonnie & Clyde) and why Thelma & Louise go off the
cliff.
Irene Goldman   00icgoldman    AT    bsuvc.bsu.edu

 
A Story of Women (french film).  One of the best movies I've ever
seen - touches on many issues that would interest feminists including
women "buddies" supporting each other ....
 
Donna Baron

 
Perhaps we could focus the buddy movie discussion by relating it to
general issues of genre, since the basis for classifying a film as a
"women's buddy movie" seems murky to some.  A good starting point for
thinking about the difference between culturally sanctioned genre and
the classification systems employed by individual analysts is
Steve Neale's article "Questions of Genre," _Screen_ #30 (spring
1990) pp. 45-66.  This article gives students a good framework
for discussing genre critique, and might helpfully ground a class
discussion of whether or not "women's buddy movies" must follow
the generic rules of traditional [male] movies.
 
Jennifer Ting
Department of American Civilization
Brown University
 
 
 jen  <-->  st403328    AT    brownvm  <-->  st403328    AT    brownvm.brown.edu

 
I may have been the only one to have been struck by a connection between two
ongoing recent discussions about buddy movies and w.s. pedagogy.  M. Roberson
posted a very valuable contribution, I thought, with citations on why it is
so common for w.s. students to endorse feminist values but refuse to call
themselves feminists.  One reason given was that they believe they can make it
as individuals and see no need for collective action.  Now, on how this ties in
with buddy movies.  My growing suspicion about this loose genre, if it is one,
was crystallized by the comment earlier today that often such movies concern
outlaws or romantic outsiders.  (e.g. Thelma and Louise.)  While it seems to
me an obvious good thing if women are shown in a film as having close friend-
ships, pursuing independent goals, being strong and active, etc., one thing
may remain true, that these are in a sense domestic and not political films.
They remain at the private sphere of relationships, caring, emotions, melodrama,
am I getting too cynical?  So, without meaning to assert hierarchies, I propose
that especially interesting buddy movies would show women somehow engaging
in collective action for change.  Buddies working together might, as depicted
in a film, be helpful pedagogically to illustrate some of what our, or at
 least,my, students just don't "get."  Also these movies would be especially
 interest-
ing if the "buddies" forged alliances across age, social class, race, or
ethnicity.  I suggest "Born in Flames."
Cynthia Freeland
phil7    AT    jetson.uh.edu
P.S.
For a really weird twist, try this one.  Constance Penley, either in a book
of her own or an edited collection, describes a women's Star Trek fan club
that constructs elaborate story variations on the relations between Spock
and Kirk in Star Trek.  The author of the article construes these as feminist
readings against the grain.  So, I submit Spock and Kirk, as read by women
in these fantasy readings, as an example, but probably not one that fits the
category I just suggested above.

 
        _Entre Nous_, another French film, might also fit into the
category of women buddy movies.  The "outlaw," us-against-them element
is definitely there.    Lyn Ellen

 
[1st paragraph deleted]
 
ALSO -- ABOUT FEMALE BUDDY FILMS: GENDER & GENRE
 
I've taught _Thelma and Louise_ a couple times now, once in my Intro to
Women's Studies course and once in a class called Feminist Theory and
Popular Culture.  Both times, we (me and the class) were fascinated with
the critical debate that accompanied the movie in the popular press; "is
this a feminist film" was the question nearly every reviewer sought to
answer. It was fascinating to see what people's notions of "feminist"
representations were (for instance, "it can't be feminist because they die
in the end), particularly when the reviewers unknowingly recapitulated in
their reviews the very issues the film raises (for instance, some women
reviewers couldn't get over how "dumb" Thelma was, how sexually vulnerable
she allowed herself to be, even after the near-rape).
 
It's clear to me that one of the film's messages is that female buddy films
have to deviate from male buddy films precisely because of the assymetry of
gendered power relations in our culture. For instance, Thelma and Louise
become outlaws for responding in kind to the everyday sexual harassment and
violence that they endure; they become "outlaws" in self-defense, and their
acting up is more threatening to their culture (and to male reviewers) than
Butch and Sundance's.
 
Finally, it seems telling that we haven't been able to name many female
buddy films in our discussion -- almost every film with two bonded women
represents a deviation from the genre in some way. That's because "buddying
up" means something different for women than for men, and poses different
threats and has different consequences. And there seems to be few movies
were two women are allowed to become as intimate and loyal as Thelma and
Louise, even if they are lovers.
 
Has anyone seen the Australian film _Shame_ about a motorcycle riding woman
who rids a small town of marauding rapists? It's an excellent turn-around
of the typical Western, especially _Shane_ -- but it also demonstrates that
when the gender of the protagonist changes, so too does the meaning and
outcome of their heroic acts.
 
 
--Lila Hanft lxh16    AT    po.cwru.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------
Lila Hanft                                     lxh16    AT    po.cwru.edu
Assistant Professor of English
Case Western Reserve University                   (216)-368-2372

 
cynthia freeland raises interesting issues in making connections between buddy
movies and ws pedagogy. first: in pointing out that the buddies are involved in
 a private relationship of caring and feeling, you dichotomize the public and p
rivate in ways that do not correspond to reality.  There is much in the public
that has to do with caring and emotions.  the question is, what and whom you ca
re for, how, and the feelings entailed.  e.g., laws on behalf of property owner
s, dominant groups, etc are accompanied by feelings, certainly not devoid of pa
ssion, considering the work it takes to protect those groups.  Private relation
s, eg, in a family, cannot be understood outside of the context of the public
structures eg, jobs, wage gaps based on sex, child care.  Thelma and Louise wer
e coping with public structures and ideologies.  second, it has seemed to me th
at undergraduate students ws students have difficulties with decisions about pe
rsonal responsibilty for supporting the woman who contests power, the outsider.
in an important way, feminists represent the "outlaw" and in this sense the
thelma and louise and other films of women coming together can be useful in
declaration of identification with/as feminists.  beatrice beabc    AT    cunyvm.cuny.ed
u

 
_Passion Fish_, which came out fairly recently, starring Alfre Woodard and
Mary McDonnell.  Don't know if it's available on video.
 
Just thought of another one:  The film of the play _The Trojan Women_, with
Katharine Hepburn.  While not quite a buddy movie, it's still wonderful.
  
Another one..._Better Off Dead_, which was being shown on the Lifetime channel
last month.  It stars Mare Winningham, and it's produced by Gloria Steinem.
It's about the friendship that develops between a white woman on death row for
killing a cop and the black woman lawyer who had originally sought the death
penalty for her.  It's very engrossing.
 
 
---Laurie
 
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Has anyone mentioned Hitchcock's BLACKMAIL (1929), SHADOW OF A DOUBT
(1943), or DIAL M FOR MURDER?
Also, Molly Haskell had a significant discussion of the Buddy Film in
FROM REVERENCE TO RAPE:  THE TREATMENT OF WOMEN IN MOVIES (1987) and
Laura Mulvey refers to that discussion in "Visual Pleasure and
Narrative Cinema."
                Carol Fleisher Kent
                Georgetown University
                Kent    AT    Guvax