Democracy and the Federal Constitution: Notes from the Constitutional Convention, May-Sept., 1787
Although most Americans have long considered
the Federal Constitution to be the centerpiece of the nations democracy, the
men who met in
The delegates on the Articles of Confederation and the state
The Articles of Confederation was the form of national government that preceded the Federal Constitution. Most delegates felt the Articles were too weak and left the national government with too little power and the individual states with too much power. In particular, they did not believe the Articles were a sufficient check on what they saw as overly democratic state constitutions and governments.
Mr. RAND (
Having pointed out its defects, let us not be affraid to view with a steady eye the perils with which we
are surrounded. Look at the public countenance from
Our chief danger arises from the democratic parts of our constitutions. It
is a maxim which I hold incontrovertible, that the powers of government
exercised by the people swallows up the other branches. None of the
constitutions have provided sufficient checks against the democracy. The feeble
Senate of Virginia is a phantom.
On the House of Representatives:
Much of the debate at the convention centered on the creation of the two houses of Congress (also referred to here as the two branches of the legislature). The delegates agreed that there should be a large lower house (the House of Representatives) and a small upper house (the Senate). But they disagreed over how the members of each house of Congress should be chosen. For the lower house (the first branch), the big debate was whether representatives should be elected by the public or appointed by state legislatures. As you read the debate, pay attention to how the delegates justify their reasons for wanting the house to be appointed or elected.
Resol: 4. 2 first clause "that the members of the first branch of the National Legislature ought to be elected by the people of the several States" being taken up,
Mr. SHERMAN (Roger Sherman, CT) opposed the election by the people, insisting that it ought to be by the State Legislatures. The people he said, immediately should have as little to do as may be about the Government. They want [lack] information and are constantly liable to be misled.
Mr. GERRY. (
Mr. MASON, (George Mason, VA) argued strongly for an election of the larger branch by the people. It was to be the grand depository of the democratic principle of the Govtt. It was, so to speak, to be our House of Commons It ought to know & sympathise with every part of the community; and ought therefore to be taken not only from different parts of the whole republic, but also from different districts of the larger members of it, which had in several instances particularly in Virga., different interests and views arising from difference of produce, of habits &c &c. He admitted that we had been too democratic but was afraid we sd. incautiously run into the opposite extreme. We ought to attend to the rights of every class of the people. He had often wondered at the indifference of the superior classes of society to this dictate of humanity & policy; considering that however affluent their circumstances, or elevated their situations, might be, the course of a few years, not only might but certainly would, distribute their posterity throughout the lowest classes of Society. Every selfish motive therefore, every family attachment, ought to recommend such a system of policy as would provide no less carefully for the rights and happiness of the lowest than of the highest orders of Citizens.
Mr. WILSON (James Wilson, PA) contended strenuously for drawing the most numerous branch of the Legislature immediately from the people. He was for raising the federal pyramid to a considerable altitude, and for that reason wished to give it as broad a basis as possible. No government could long subsist without the confidence of the people. In a republican Government this confidence was peculiarly essential. He also thought it wrong to increase the weight of the State Legislatures by making them the electors of the national Legislature. All interference between the general and local Governmts. should be obviated as much as possible. On examination it would be found that the opposition of States to federal measures had proceded much more from the officers of the States, than from the people at large.
Mr. MADISON (James Madison, VA) considered the popular election of one branch of the National Legislature as essential to every plan of free Government. He observed that in some of the States one branch of the Legislature was composed of men already removed from the people by an intervening body of electors. That if the first branch of the general legislature should be elected by the State Legislatures, the second branch elected by the first the Executive by the second together with the first; and other appointments again made for subordinate purposes by the Executive, the people would be lost sight of altogether; and the necessary sympathy between them and their rulers and officers, too little felt. He was an advocate for the policy of refining the popular appointments by successive filtrations, but though it might be pushed too far. He wished the expedient to be resorted to only in the appointment of the second branch of the Legislature, and in the Executive & judiciary branches of the Government. He thought too that the great fabric to be raised would be more stable and durable, if it should rest on the solid foundation of the people themselves, than if it should stand merely on the pillars of the Legislatures.
Mr. GERRY (
Mr. BUTLER (Pierce Butler, SC) thought an election by the people an impracticable mode.
Mr. PINKNEY (Charles Pinckney, SC) according to previous notice & rule obtained, moved "that the first branch of the national Legislature be elected by the State Legislatures, and not by the people." contending that the people were less fit Judges in such a case, and that the Legislatures would be less likely to promote the adoption of the new Government, if they were to be excluded from all share in it.
Mr. RUTLIDGE (John Rutledge, SC) 2ded. the motion.
Mr. GERRY. (
Col. MASON. (George Mason, VA) Under the existing Confederacy, Congs. represent the States 4 not the people of the States: their acts operate on the States, not on the individuals. 5 The case will be changed in the new plan of Govt. The people will be represented; they ought therefore to choose the Representatives. The requisites in actual representation are that the Reps. should sympathize with their constituents; shd. think as they think, & feel as they feel; and that for these purposes shd. even be residents among them. Much he sd. had been alledged agst. democratic elections. He admitted that much might be said; but it was to be considered that no Govt. was free from imperfections & evils; and that improper elections in many instances, were inseparable from Republican Govts. But compare these with the advantage of this Form in favor of the rights of the people, in favor of human nature. He was persuaded there was a better chance for proper elections by the people, if divided into large districts, than by the State Legislatures. Paper money had been issued by the latter when the former were against it. Was it to be supposed that the State Legislatures then wd. not send to the Natl. legislature patrons of such projects, if the choice depended on them.
Mr. MADISON (James Madison,
VA) considered an election of one branch at least of the Legislature by the
people immediately, as a clear principle of free Govt. and that this mode under
proper regulations had the additional advantage of securing better
representatives, as well as of avoiding too great an agency of the State
Governments in the General one. He differed from the member from
On How often to Elect members of the House of
The debate over the terms that members of the house would serve is equally revealing about the delegates' feelings about democracy and "the people"
Mr. SHARMAN & Mr. ELSEWORTH (Roger Sherman, Oliver Ellsworth, CT) moved to fill the blank left in the 4th. Resolution for the periods of electing the members of the first branch with the words, "every year." Mr. SHARMAN observing that he did it in order to bring on some question.
Mr. RUTLIDGE (John Rutledge, SC) proposed "every two years."
Mr. JENNIFER (Daniel of St. Thomas Jenifer, MD) propd. "every three years," observing that the too great frequency of elections rendered the people indifferent to them, and made the best men unwilling to engage in so precarious a service.
Mr. MADISON (James Madison, VA) seconded the motion for three years. Instability is one of the great vices of our republics, to be remedied. Three years will be necessary, in a Government so extensive, for members to form any knowledge of the various interests of the States to which they do not belong, and of which they can know but little from the situation and affairs of their own. One year will be almost consumed in preparing for and travelling to & from the seat of national business.
Mr. GERRY. (
Mr. MADISON, (James Madison, VA) observed that if the opinions of the people were to be our guide, it wd. be difficult to say what course we ought to take. No member of the Convention could say what the opinions of his Constituents were at this time; much less could he say what they would think if possessed of the information & lights possessed by the members here; & still less what would be their way of thinking 6 or 12 months hence. We ought to consider what was right & necessary in itself for the attainment of a proper Governmt. A plan adjusted to this idea will recommend itself The respectability of this convention will give weight to their recommendation of it. Experience will be constantly urging the adoption of it, and all the most enlightened & respectable citizens will be its advocates. Should we fall short of the necessary & proper point, this influential class of Citizens will be turned against the plan, and little support in opposition to them can be gained to it from the unreflecting multitude.
Mr. GERRY (
On the need for a Senate to be appointed rather than elected:
Most Americans do not know that, at first, the public did not vote for the
Mr. RAND (Edmund Randolph,
VA) If he was to give an opinion as to the number of the second branch, he
should say that it ought to be much smaller than that of the first; so small as
to be exempt from the passionate proceedings to which numberous
assemblies are liable. He observed that the general object was to provide a
cure for the evils under which the
Mr. DICKENSON (John Dickinson, DE) He wished the Senate to consist of the most distinguished characters, distinguished for their rank in life and their weight of property, and bearing as strong a likeness to the British House of Lords as possible; and he thought such characters more likely to be selected by the State Legislatures, than in any other mode. The greatness of the number was no objection with him. He hoped there would be 80 and twice 80. of them. If their number should be small, the popular branch could not be balanced by them. The legislature of a numerous people ought to be a numerous body.
Mr. WILSON. (James Wilson, PA) If we are to establish a national Government, that Government ought to flow from the people at large. If one branch of it should be chosen by the Legislatures, and the other by the people, the two branches will rest on different foundations, and dissensions will naturally arise between them. He wished the Senate to be elected by the people as well as the other branch, and the people might be divided into proper districts for the purpose & 4 moved to postpone the motion of Mr. Dickenson, in order to take up one of that import.
Mr. GERRY. (
Mr. WILSON. (James Wilson, PA) The subject it must be owned is surrounded with doubts and difficulties. But we must surmount them. The British Governmt. cannot be our model. We have no materials for a similar one. Our manners, our laws, the abolition of entails and of primogeniture, the whole genius of the people, are opposed to it. He did not see the danger of the States being devoured by the Nationl. Govt. On the contrary, he wished to keep them from devouring the national Govt. He was not however for extinguishing these planets as was supposed by Mr. D. neither did he on the other hand, believe that they would warm or enlighten the Sun. Within their proper orbits they must still be suffered to act for subordinate purposes for which their existence is made essential by the great extent of our Country. He could not comprehend in what manner the landed interest wd. be rendered less predominant in the Senate, by an election through the medium of the Legislatures then by the people themselves. If the Legislatures, as was now complained, sacrificed the commercial to the landed interest, what reason was there to expect such a choice from them as would defeat their own views. He was for an election by the people in large districts which wd. be most likely to obtain men of intelligence & uprightness; subdividing the districts only for the accomodation of voters.
Mr. MADISON (James Madison, VA) could as little comprehend in what manner family weight, as desired by Mr. D. would be more certainly conveyed into the Senate through elections by the State Legislatures, than in some other modes. The true question was in what mode the best choice wd. be made? If an election by the people, or thro' any other channel than the State Legislatures promised as uncorrupt & impartial a preference of merit, there could surely be no necessity for an appointment by those Legislatures. Nor was it apparent that a more useful check would be derived thro' that channel than from the people thro' some other. The great evils complained of were that the State Legislatures run into schemes of paper money &c. whenever solicited by the people, & sometimes without even the sanction of the people. Their influence then, instead of checking a like propensity in the National Legislature, may be expected to promote it. Nothing can be more contradictory than to say that the Natl. Legislature witht. a proper check, will follow the example of the State Legislatures, & in the same breath, that the State Legislatures are the only proper check.
Mr. SHARMAN (Roger Sherman, CT) opposed elections by the people in districts, as not likely to produce such fit men as elections by the State Legislatures.
Mr. GERRY (
Mr. ELSEWORTH. (Oliver Ellsworth, CT) The capital objection of Mr. Wilson "that the minority will rule the majority" is not true. The power is given to the few to save them from being destroyed by the many. If an equality of votes had been given to them in both branches, the objection might have had weight. Is it a novel thing that the few should have a check on the many? Is it not the case in the British Constitution the wisdom of which so many gentlemen have united in applauding? Have not the House of Lords, who form so small a proportion of the nation a negative on the laws, as a necessary defence of their peculiar rights agst. the encroachmts. of the Commons.
On Proposed Terms that Senators would serve:
There was considerable debate over how long a term Senators should serve. Much of the debate centered on deciding between six or seven year terms--although from the documents below, you'll find that others wanted longer (and even lifetime) terms. Your job is to explain why they wanted such long terms (6+ years) for Senators.
Mr. RANDOLPH (
Mr. MADISON, (James Madison, VA) considered 7 years as a term by no means too long. What we wished was to give to the Govt. that stability which was every where called for, and which the Enemies of the Republican form alledged to be inconsistent with its nature. He was not afraid of giving too much stability by the term of Seven years. His fear was that the popular branch would still be too great an overmatch for it. It was to be much lamented that we had so little direct experience to guide us. The Constitution of Maryland was the only one that bore any analogy to this part of the plan. In no instance had the Senate of Maryd. created just suspicions of danger from it. In some instances perhaps it may have erred by yielding to the H. of Delegates. In every instance of their opposition to the measures of the H. of D. they had had with them the suffrages of the most enlightened and impartial people of the other States as well as of their own. In the States where the Senates were chosen in the same manner as the other branches, of the Legislature, and held their seats for 4 years, the institution was found to be no check whatever agst. the instabilities of the other branches. He conceived it to be of great importance that a stable & firm Govt. organized in the republican form should be held out to the people. If this be not done, and the people be left to judge of this species of Govt. by ye. operations of the defective systems under which they now live, it is much to be feared the time is not distant when, in universal disgust, they will renounce the blessing which they have purchased at so dear a rate, and be ready for any change that may be proposed to them.
Mr. HAMILTON, (Alexander
Hamilton, NY) In his private opinion he had no scruple in declaring, supported
as he was by the opinions of so many of the wise & good, that the British
Govt. was the best in the world: and that he doubted much whether any thing
short of it would do in America. He hoped Gentlemen of different opinions would
bear with him in this, and begged them to recollect the change of opinion on
this subject which had taken place and was still going on. It was once thought
that the power of Congs. was
amply sufficient to secure the end of their institution. The error was now seen
by every one. The members most tenacious of republicanism, he observed, were as
loud as any in declaiming agst. the
vices of democracy. This progress of the public mind led him to anticipate the
time, when others as well as himself would join in the praise bestowed by Mr. Neckar on the British Constitution, namely, that it is the
only Govt. in the world "which unites public strength with individual
security." In every community where industry is encouraged, there will
be a division of it into the few & the many. Hence separate interests will
arise. There will be debtors & creditors &c. Give
all power to the many, they will oppress the few. Give all power to the few,
they will oppress the many. Both therefore ought to have 6 power, that each may defend itself agst.
the other. To the want of this check we owe our paper
money, instalment laws &c. To the proper
adjustment of it the British owe the excellence of their Constitution. Their
house of Lords is a most noble institution. Having nothing to hope for by a
change, and a sufficient interest by means of their property, in being faithful
to the national interest, they form a permanent barrier agst.
every pernicious innovation, whether attempted on the
part of the Crown or of the Commons. No temporary Senate will have firmness eno' to answer the purpose. The Senate [of
Mr. MADISON. (James Madison) In order to judge of the form to be given to this institution, it will be proper to take a view of the ends to be served by it. These were first to protect the people agst. their rulers: secondly to protect the people agst. the transient impressions into which they themselves might be led. A people deliberating in a temperate moment, and with the experience of other nations before them, on the plan of Govt. most likely to secure their happiness, would first be aware, that those chargd. with the public happiness, might betray their trust. An obvious precaution agst. this danger wd. be to divide the trust between different bodies of men, who might watch & check each other. In this they wd. be governed by the same prudence which has prevailed in organizing the subordinate departments of Govt., where all business liable to abuses is made to pass thro' separate hands, the one being a check on the other. It wd. next occur to such a people, that they themselves were liable to temporary errors, thro' want of information as to their true interest, and that men chosen for a short term, & employed but a small portion of that in public affairs, might err from the same cause. This reflection wd. naturally suggest that the Govt. be so constituted, as that one of its branches might have an oppy. of acquiring a competent knowledge of the public interests Another reflection equally becoming a people on such an occasion, wd. be that they themselves, as well as a numerous body of Representatives, were liable to err also, from fickleness and passion. A necessary fence agst. this danger would be to select a portion of enlightened citizens, whose limited number, and firmness might seasonably interpose agst. impetuous councils. It ought finally to occur to a people deliberating on a Govt. for themselves, that as different interests necessarily result from the liberty meant to be secured, the major interest might under sudden impulses be tempted to commit injustice on the minority. In all civilized Countries the people fall into different classes havg a real or supposed difference of interests. There will be creditors & debtors, farmers, merchts. & manufacturers. There will be particularly the distinction of rich & poor. It was true as had been observd. [by Mr. Pinkney] we had not among us those hereditary distinctions, of rank which were a great source of the contests in the ancient Govts. as well as the modern States of Europe, nor those extremes of wealth or poverty which characterize the latter. We cannot however be regarded even at this time, as one homogeneous mass, in which every thing that affects a part will affect in the same manner the whole. In framing a system which we wish to last for ages, we shd. not lose sight of the changes which ages will produce. An increase of population will of necessity increase the proportion of those who will labour under all the hardships of life, & secretly sigh for a more equal distribution of its blessings. These may in time outnumber those who are placed above the feelings of indigence. According to the equal laws of suffrage, the power will slide into the hands of the former. No agrarian attempts have yet been made in in this Country, but symtoms, of a leveling spirit, as we have understood, have sufficiently appeared in a certain quarters to give notice of the future danger. How is this danger to be guarded agst. on republican principles? How is the danger in all cases of interested coalitions to oppress the minority to be guarded agst.? Among other means by the establishment of a body in the Govt. sufficiently respectable for its wisdom & virtue, to aid on such emergences, the preponderance of justice by throwing its weight into that scale. Such being the objects of the second branch in the proposed Govt. he thought a considerable duration ought to be given to it. He did not conceive that the term of nine years could threaten any real danger; but in pursuing his particular ideas on the subject, he should require that the long term allowed to the 2d. branch should not commence till such a period of life, as would render a perpetual disqualification to be re-elected little inconvenient either in a public or private view. He observed that as it was more than probable we were now digesting a plan which in its operation wd. decide for ever the fate of Republican Govt. we ought not only to provide every guard to liberty that its preservation cd. require, but be equally careful to supply the defects which our own experience had particularly pointed out.
Mr. HAMILTON. (Alexander Hamilton, NY) He did not mean to enter particularly into the subject. He concurred with Mr. Madison in thinking we were now to decide for ever the fate of Republican Government; and that if we did not give to that form due stability and wisdom, it would be disgraced & lost among ourselves, disgraced & lost to mankind for ever. He acknowledged himself not to think favorably of Republican Government; but addressed his remarks to those who did think favorably of it, in order to prevail on them to tone their Government as high as possible. He professed himself to be as zealous an advocate for liberty as any man whatever, and trusted he should be as willing a martyr to it though he differed as to the form in which it was most eligible. -- He concurred also in the general observations of [Mr. Madison] on the subject, which might be supported by others if it were necessary. It was certainly true: that nothing like an equality of property existed: that an inequality would exist as long as liberty existed, and that it would unavoidably result from that very liberty itself. This inequality of property constituted the great & fundamental distinction in Society. When the Tribunitial power had levelled the boundary between the patricians & plebeians, what followed? The distinction between rich & poor was substituted. He meant not however to enlarge on the subject. He rose principally to remark that [Mr. Sherman] seemed not to recollect that one branch of the proposed Govt. was so formed, as to render it particularly the guardians of the poorer orders of Citizens; nor to have adverted to the true causes of the stability which had been exemplified in Cont. Under the British system as well as the federal, many of the great powers appertaining to Govt. particularly all those relating to foreign Nations were not in the hands of the Govt. there. Their internal affairs also were extremely simple, owing to sundry causes many of which were peculiar to that Country. Of late the Govermt. had entirely given way to the people, and had in fact suspended many of its ordinary functions in order to prevent those turbulent scenes which had appeared elsewhere. He asks Mr. S. whether the State at this time, dare impose & collect a tax on ye. people? To these causes & not to the frequency of elections, the effect, as far as it existed ought to be chiefly ascribed.
Mr. Govr. MORRIS.
On the Executive Branch (the President) and the Election of the
The debate about the President had to do with how much power the office should carry (should it have a veto?) and on how the office should be chosen. Most of what follows concerns the selection of Presidents: should it be done by state legislatures, by the people, or through electors. The eventual choice would be electors: rather than voting directly for the President, people voted for an elector from a slate of men who ran for the right to cast one of a state's electoral votes for President. The documents below shed a little light on this less-than-democratic option.
Mr. HAMILTON. (Alexander
Hamilton, NY) I confess, I see great difficulty of
drawing forth a good representation. What, for example, will be the inducements
for gentlemen of fortune and abilities to leave their houses and business to
attend annually and long? It cannot be the wages; for these, I presume, must be
small. Will not the power, therefore, be thrown into the hands of the demagogue
or middling politician, who, for the sake of a small stipend and the hopes of
advancement, will offer himself as a candidate, and the real men of weight and
influence, by remaining at home, add strength to the state governments? I am at
a loss to know what must be done--I despair that a republican form of
government can remove the difficulties. Whatever may be my opinion, I would
hold it however unwise to change that form of government. I believe the British
government forms the best model the world ever produced, and such has been its
progress in the minds of the many, that this truth gradually gains ground. This
government has for its object public strength and individual security. It is
said with us to be unattainable. If it was once formed it would maintain
itself. All communities divide themselves into the few and the many. The first
are the rich and well born, the other the mass of the people. The voice of the
people has been said to be the voice of God; and however generally this maxim
has been quoted and believed, it is not true in fact. The people are turbulent
and changing; they seldom judge or determine right. Give therefore to the first
class a distinct, permanent share in the government. They will check the
unsteadiness of the second, and as they cannot receive any advantage by a
change, they therefore will ever maintain good government. Can a democratic
assembly, who annually revolve in the mass of the people, be supposed steadily
to pursue the public good? Nothing but a permanent body can check the
imprudence of democracy. Their turbulent and uncontrouling
disposition requires checks. The senate of New-York, although chosen for four
years, we have found to be inefficient. Will, on the
Let one body of the legislature be constituted during good behaviour or life.
Let one executive be appointed who dares execute his powers.
It may be asked is this a republican system? It is strictly so, as long as they remain elective.
And let me observe, that an executive is less dangerous to the liberties of the people when in office during life, than for seven years.
Mr. GERRY. (
Mr. MADISON. (James Madison,
VA) The option before us then lay between an appointment by Electors chosen by
the people and an immediate appointment by the people. He thought the former
mode free from many of the objections which had been urged agst.
it, and greatly preferable to an appointment by the
Natl. Legislature. As the electors would be chosen for the occasion, would meet
at once, & proceed immediately to an appointment, there would be very
little opportunity for cabal, or corruption. As a farther precaution, it might
be required that they should meet at some place, distinct from the seat of Govt.
and even that no person within a certain distance of the place at the time shd. be eligible. This Mode
however had been rejected so recently & by so great a majority that it
probably would not be proposed anew. The remaining mode was an election by the
people or rather by the qualified part of them, at large: With all its
imperfections he liked this best. He would not repeat either the general argumts. for or the objections agst. this mode. He would only
take notice of two difficulties which he admitted to have weight. The first
arose from the disposition in the people to prefer a Citizen of their own
State, and the disadvantage this wd. throw on the smaller States. Great as this
objection might be he did not think it equal to such as lay agst.
every other mode which had been proposed. He thought
too that some expedient might be hit upon that would obviate it. The second
difficulty arose from the disproportion of qualified voters in the
Mr. GERRY. (
On Need for Strong Judiciary:
Note the examples Morris offers for "bad laws" that serve as justification for a strong judiciary to check the legislature
Mr. GOVERNEUR MORRIS. (
On Paper Money (Banning the States from printing and
debating banning Congress as well):
Many delegates equated democracy with paper money. Here are their thoughts on banning paper money both at the state and national level. The Constitution banned states from printing paper money but did not place a similar ban on Congress.
Mr. GOVERNEUR MORRIS. (
Mr. MERCER (John F. Mercer,
MD) was a friend to paper money, though in the present state & temper of
Mr. ELSEWORTH (Oliver
Ellsworth, CT) thought this a favorable moment to shut and bar the door against
paper money. The mischiefs of the various experiments
which had been made, were now fresh in the public mind
and had excited the disgust of all the respectable part of
Mr. RANDOLPH, (
Mr. WILSON. (James Wilson, PA) It will have a most salutary influence on the credit of the U. States to remove the possibility of paper money. This expedient can never succeed whilst its mischiefs are remembered, and as long as it can be resorted to, it will be a bar to other resources.
Mr. BUTLER. (Pierce Butler,
SC) remarked that paper was a legal tender in no Country in
Mr. MASON (George Mason, VA)
was still averse to tying the hands of the Legislature altogether. If
there was no example in
Mr. READ, (George Read, DE) thought [to allow the government to print paper money], would be as alarming as the mark of the Beast in Revelations.
On War Debt:
Mr. SHERMAN (Roger Sherman, CT) The complaints at present are not that the views of Congs. are unwise or unfaithful; but that their powers are insufficient for the execution of their views. The national debt & the want of power somewhere to draw forth the National resources, are the great matters that press. All the States were sensible of the defect of power in Congs. He thought much might be said in apology for the failure of the State Legislatures to comply with the confederation. They were afraid of bearing too hard on the people, by accumulating taxes.
On Slavery, Taxation and Representation (the 3/5 clause):
The issue of slavery divided the delegates across north/south lines. In terms of the constitution, the debate centered on how slaves would be counted in the population figures that determined how many representatives each state had in the lower house of Congress as well as the state's tax quota. The compromise they settled on was to have each slave count for 3/5 of a person for both taxation and representation. The debates reveal much about the extent to which democracy applied to Black Americans.
Mr. PATTERSON (William Patterson, NJ) considered the proposed estimate for the future according to the Combined rule 7 of numbers and wealth, as too vague. For this reason N. Jersey was agst. it. He could regard negroes 8 slaves in no light but as property. They are no free agents, have no personal liberty, no faculty of acquiring property, but on the contrary are themselves property, & like other property entirely at the will of the Master. Has a man in Virga. a number of votes in proportion to the number of his slaves? And if Negroes are not represented in the States to which they belong, why should they be represented in the Genl. Govt. What is the true principle of Representation? It is an expedient by which an assembly of certain individls. chosen by the people is substituted in place of the inconvenient meeting of the people themselves. If such a meeting of the people was actually to take place, would the slaves vote? They would not. Why then shd. they be represented. He was also agst. such an indirect encouragemt. of the slave trade; observing that Congs. in their act relating to the change of the 8 art: of Confedn. had been ashamed to use the term "slaves" & had substituted a description.
Mr. GHORUM. (Nathaniel Gorham, MA) This ratio was fixed by Congs. as a rule of taxation. Then it was urged by the Delegates representing the States having slaves that the blacks were still more inferior to freemen. At present when the ratio of representation is to be established, we are assured that they are equal to freemen. The arguments on ye. former occasion had convinced him that 3/5 was pretty near the just proportion and he should vote according to the same opinion now.
Mr. BUTLER (Pierce Butler,
SC) insisted that the labour of a slave in
Mr. MASON, (George Mason, VA) could not agree to the motion, notwithstand it was favorable to Virga. because he thought it unjust. It was certain that the slaves were valuable, as they raised the value of land, increased the exports & imports, and of course the revenue, would supply the means of feeding & supporting an army, and might in cases of emergency become themselves soldiers. As in these important respects they were useful to the community at large, they ought not to be excluded from the estimate of Representation. He could not however regard them as equal to freemen and could not vote for them as such. He added as worthy of remark, that the Southern States have this peculiar species of property, over & above the other species of property common to all the States.
Mr. WILLIAMSON (Hugh Williamson, NC) reminded Mr. Ghorum that if the Southn. States contended for the inferiority of blacks to whites when taxation was in view, the Eastern States on the same occasion contended for their equality. He did not however either then or now, concur in either extreme, but approved of the ratio of 3/5.
Mr. WILSON (James Wilson,
PA) did not well see on what principle the admission of blacks in the
proportion of three fifths could be explained. Are they admitted as Citizens? then why are they not admitted on an equality with White
Citizens? are they admitted as property? then why is not other property admitted into the
computation? These were difficulties however which he thought must be overruled
by the necessity of compromise. He had some apprehensions also from the
tendency of the blending of the blacks with the whites, to give disgust to the
people of Pena. as had been intimated by his Colleague
[Mr. Govr. Morris]. But he differed from him in
thinking numbers of inhabts. so
incorrect a measure of wealth. He had seen the Western settlemts.
Mr. DAVIE, (William R. Davie, NC) said it was high time now to speak out. He saw that it was meant by some gentlemen to deprive the Southern States of any share of Representation for their blacks. He was sure that N. Carola. would never confederate on any terms that did not rate them at least as 3/5 . If the Eastern States meant therefore to exclude them altogether the business was at an end.
Sources on the Constitutional Convention:
The best source is the online collection available at the government's
American Memory project. This is a digitized version of the most complete set
of convention records we have that was edited by Max Farrand
(they are often referred to as Farrand's Records):
The Records of the Federal Convention of 1787 (http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/amlaw/lwfr.html)
The heart of Farrand's Records are James Madison's notes on the convention which are available online at two different sites:
James Madison's Notes on the Convention (http://www.constitution.org/dfc/dfc_0000.htm)
James Madison's Notes of the Convention (http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/debates/debcont.htm)
For the text of the Constitution and helpful mini-biographies of the delegates to the convention, see the Charters of Freedom project of the National Archives:
National Archives: Text of the Constitution and Founder Biographies (http://www.archives.gov/exhibit_hall/charters_of_freedom/constitution/constitution.html)