Student Workloads

PAGE 3 OF 4

 
While I have sympathy for students who have many responsibilities,
including supporting themselves (and others), I do not think we should
adjust our classes to fit in the cracks of their lives.  I teach at a
100% commuter school with a high number of returning students.  Like one
of the other posters, I respond to their crowded lives by giving them a
very complete syllabus that lets them know up front what will be
required, and that lets them have advance notice when the "crunch" times
will come.  When students comment on the heavy work load, my standard
reply is "I know that many of you are struggling and sacrificing to get
an education.  I want to make sure that what you get is worth the
struggle."  Going to college/university full time is supposed to be just
that -- full time-- in other words it should take at least as much time
as
a full time job would. The guide I have always used is that you should
expect 3 hours out of class for every hour in class for upper division
courses, and 2 hours out of class for every hour in for lower division.
On the other hand, students will take shortcuts when pressed.  They will
take fewer, however, if there is a reward for their efforts in doing the
asignment -- class discussion (not a lecture masquerading as discussion),
a writing assignment (journals, essays, tests), etc.  By the way, this
assigning of major reading in structured courses is not universal.  I
just came back from a Fulbright in Finland.  Students there expected to
read about the equivalent of one book per class, and they did not expect
to have to buy anything.  Joan Gundersen, Cal State U., San Marcos
jrgunder  @  coyote.csusm.edu

 
Many of the responses thus far are from literature/English teachers; as a
sociologist I certainly see this as an issue as well -- plus we are
accused of assigning "boring" reading.  To counter some of these problems
I give out fairly detailed Learnig Guides, with questions to be answered
as they read the material.  It gives them an idea of what I think is
important, what they will be quizzed on, and lets them assess whether
they understand the material or not -- I tell them, if you can write it
in your own words, you probably understand it.  They complain that the
material is difficult and time consuming, but they realize that IF THEY
DON'T DO THE READING, THEY WON'T UNDERSTAND THE MATERIAL!!!  I have tried
this method in my family course, where it hasn't worked as well, perhaps
because there aren't frequent quizzes to provide reinforcement of study
habits...
 
Pat Christian
christia  @  gort.canisius.edu

 
One of Nikki's students told her he "didn't want to think." This reminds
me that last semester I had a student who said I should make his final
exam grade count less because the exam was "not relevant to his life."
 
This made me laugh for 2 reasons. First, did this student think that I
would say, "Okay, the exam counts for 25% of the grade for everyone
except 'Joe'?"
 
Secondly, the course was a sex education course, and the exam covered
basic concepts such as anatomy & physiology, HIV prevention,
contraception, rape prevention, etc. If this exam was "not relevant to
his life," how does he handle exams in subjects like calculus?
 
***********************
Chris Saad
saad  @  dolphin.upenn.edu
saad  @  alumni.upenn.edu
(215) 790-0722
***********************

 
I too use the reading aloud in class strategy and have to defend it
against some of the objections that have been raised.  Though it can be
used to address the problem of no one having done the reading on a
particular day, since I really resent lecturing to students who haven't
done the reading, I think it is most useful as a way of encouring
close-reading of the text.  I stop after each student reads to ask for
comments and to ask questions and I find that they pay much more
attention to
details in this way than they would otherwise, or if they have read, than
they did on the first reading.  I am able to stress multiple examples of
imagery for example in this much more effectively than if I just listed
examples out of context.  I wouldn't give students advance warning of our
doing this, and I only do it once or twice a semester, and only in
literature classes.   I have to credit Tom Moylan for suggesting this
pedagogy to me.
 
Angela Hubler
Asst Prof of English and Women's Studies
Kansas State U.

 
An addition to my post advocating reading aloud in class:  My students
overwhelmingly like this pedagogy, even those who have done the reading.
I'm a little surprised at people who say this is boring and a waste of
time (again, only re. literature).  I love to be read to.  And this
strategy is not at all
passive; in fact, it models what active reading is supposed to be.
Angela
P.S. Could people read all of their messages before they respond so we
don't get 10 people replying with the same answer to the same question?

 
My sense of the original post complaining of "not enough time to read" had
more to do with the t fact that the student had to hold down a job while trying
to study--no easy feat. I was "fortunate:" in that I went to a wealthy school
that took good care of me (and left me in an amazing amount of debt), but I
only had to work part-time to make ends meet. I think the source of the prob-
lem is not a "dumgin-oops, can't edit "dumbing-down" of the students, but the
high cost of education. In fact, I found it slight ly offensive that this
detail of the student's experience (shared by *many* students) was overlooked--
that she was trying to get an education few can truly afford.
 
Charisse
charisse  @  lightscatter.com

 
It seems quite clear to me that we are caught in a bind; we are deducators
and our students come to us in order to learn, or at least we hope so.  We
must continue, it seems to me, to expect our students to be partners in
the adventure.  Yes, we certainly need to be understanding of the stresses
which fill our students lives, but we must also uphold our standards and
values and our conception of the word teacher.  Of course they need to
read and of course we must continue to provide worthwhile experiences for
our students!
Gloria T. Cohen-Dion
Asst. Professor Political Science
Bloomsburg University
gcohen  @  planetx.bloomu.edu

 
> My sense of the original post complaining of "not enough time to read" had
> more to do with the t fact that the student had to hold down a job while
 trying
> to study--no easy feat.  [...]  I think the source of the prob-
> lem is not a "dumbing-down" of the students, but the
> high cost of education. In fact, I found it slight ly offensive ...
 
Oh dear.  I don't think anyone meant to say anything about the
"dumbing-down" of *STUDENTS* ... certainly I didn't in what
I posted on this topic.  I think folks meant to be using the
term "dumbing-down" as referring to the *CURRICULUM* (not
*students*).  I don't remember if I used that term in what
I posted or not, but if I did, what I *meant* to be saying was
that it does these *very smart and hard-working and struggling
students* no favors to give them a less robust education
just because they are part-time (or extremely stressed "full
time") students who also have many other responsibilities and
tugs at their time and attention.
 
FAR from believing that "non-traditional" students are anything
like "dumber" -- I think they are just as "smart" and probably
10x as motivated as most "traditional" students, and I think
they DESERVE a robust educational experience (rather than one
which has been made easier just because of assumptions about
what they are capable of accomplishing).
 
As I've said before, I *was* a "non-traditional" student for my
entire college & grad school years, and I *was* a single parent
and I *was* often working at multiple jobs, etc. outside of
school just to make ends meet.  But I certainly wasn't going
to all that trouble just to get a "McEducation."  When I did
manage to pull together the money and the time to take one
or more classes, I absolutely wanted a *good education* -- not
just a chance to earn an easy diploma.
 
However I AGREE that a major reform in the financing of education
is what is badly needed here, and I do *not* wish to give the
impression of saying that "just because I nearly killed myself,
so should you."  I worked VERY HARD to become a professional
educator myself, fueled very much by a DEEP desire to CHANGE
(rather than perpetuate) some of the things I had to do in the
name of "education."
 
I apologize if anything I said on this topic was, or could have
been, misconstrued.
 
Ruth Ginzberg
Women's Studies
Beloit College
ginzberg  @  beloit.edu

 
I'd like to share an experience from graduate business school.
 
While in school I read nearly everything assigned.  At times it meant plowing
 through 250-300 pages of reading per week in addition to assignments.
 
One day in Finance 201 the professor was speaking about some sort of financial
 principle.  I raised my hand and asked a question for clarification.  Everyone
 stared at me with disbelief!  Was I a financial genius in my prior life?  How
 could I ask a question like that?  I simply replied "I did my assigned reading
 for today."  Obviously no one else in this class of 40 did.
 
The moral of the story is, if students don't do the reading how can they expect
 to learn.  The reading is a springboard for discussion and without this reading
 there is no basis to expand thought.  Not only does the student deprive
 herself, she deprive her peers as well.  It is very frustrating to be one of
 the few who is prepared and therefore is one of the few who participates in the
 discussion.
 
By the way, I worked two jobs during grad school...but I figured if I'm forking
 out $15,000 a year, I'm getting the most I possibly can out of it.
 
Meg Harris

 
 I have been following this dialogue regarding students, reading, and time
for the past several days.  I think that some interesting and important
points have been made.  Additionally, I am pleased to see faculty discussing
students lives and time.  It is definitely an important topic.
 
     The reason I decided to jump into the dialogue is that I feel that I can
contribute a perspective to this dialogue that I have not seen thus far.  As
an undergraduate I majored in Women's Studies and double minored in Political
Science and Anthropology.   Due to the fact that my undergraduate institution
did not have a Women's Studies department  (but several faculty across
disciplines doing feminist scholarship) I designed my own major and much of
my own curriculum.   Throughout the last two years of my undergraduate career
I did two years of intensive honors research that required a great deal of
writing and reading.  On top of my academic load I took on several leadership
roles in my community.   As a student with severe dyslexia this balancing act
was quite a challenge.
 
 Throughout my education--and yes some of my educational experiences have
been horribly traumatic--  I have refused to be ashamed of my learning
difference.  Rather, I see my learning difference as a gift that has has
allowed me to look at the world with clarity and complexity.   As an
undergraduate, I often choose to speak publicly about having dyslexia in
order to challenge some very inaccurate stereotypes held by some of  my peers
and faculty members.   As an honors student and respected leader in my
community I was the last person "suspected" of having a learning difference.
   However, I chose to share with many people the kinds of strategies,
organizational skills, time, and focus it required for me to get through my
work load day to day precisely because there was more to the story than met
the eye.
That story--my story-- had the potential to shatter misperceptions and even
ignorance.
 
 I agree with Lise that  maturity has a great deal to do with how  a student
carries and balances her work load.  Throughout my entire undergraduate
career I completed 95% of all of the reading and writing assignments I was
given throughout my four years.    I budgeted my time well, stayed organized,
and prioritized my life and work week by week.  Actually, in order to keep up
with my work load, I decided early on that it would be best for me to read
one week ahead of what was on the syllabi for each class.  The point is that
this was a survival strategy for me.   Because I worked hard professors were
ALWAYS willing to accommodate my needs or schedule if something came up
 (like getting sick or a death in the family).   I never asked for extended
time on exams or an extension on a paper deadline specifically because of my
dyslexia, even though I knew that this was an option I had.   I didn't need
the extended time if I knew the material and stayed organized.  (I want to
emphasize here that I do feel strongly that support systems must be in place
for students with learning differences. We must be able to advocate for
ourselves and have options that meet our needs.  Extended time just didn't
happen to be something I needed by the time I got to college.  Thus, I only
asked for what I needed in order to show that these support systems are there
to be respected and not taken advantage of)
 The point that I am trying to make in sharing my experiences with all of you
is that the classroom is a complex place.   Life experiences have so much to
do with how a student engages in her work.  At times I was frustrated by the
fact that many of my peers did not put half as much time into their work as I
had to.  They had more time to socialize.. their lives were less structured.
 However, early on I made peace with the fact that each of us is on our own
path.  A path that has been shaped by our past, present, and goals for the
future.    Although, I think that I was an atypical student in some respects
I also believe that my experiences with education made me even more
determined to get an education.  This made me a very dedicated and passionate
student.  I wanted to read everything and more because for so much of my life
this pleasure and right was denied to me.   I did not feel as if my
professors gave me too much work.  Rather, I felt as if they were opening up
doors to me.  I definitely could have gotten away with reading less or
skimming more.  I choose not to.   I believe that professors must continue to
have this dialogue,  and that that the classroom--particularly the feminist
classroom--should be full of open doors.  I do not agree with watering down
the material/course load.  I know that the most difficult part of teaching is
finding a balance between challenging students, overwhelming them, and not
providing enough.  Thus, I feel strongly about the importance of students and
faculty partnerships and communication around the learning process,  power
relationships,  differences (including gender, race, ethnicity sexuality)
 within the classroom ect...  Together, we must not only concentrate on the
material before us, but on how we arrive at the classroom as students and
teachers.
 
           Before I close I would like to recommend two very important books
on this subject:   Teaching to Transgress: Education as The Practice of
Freedom by bell hooks (Routledge 1994);  The Rising Song of African American
Women by Barbara Omolade (Routledge 1994)..
 
Lisa M. Weiner
LMWeiner  @  aol.com

 
I've really appreciated the current ongoing discussion of this topic.
 It came along just at that point in the semester where both I and my
students are all feeling overloaded, and thus is especially timely.
 
One aspect of it that seems particularly relevant to women's studies,
though, is the extent to which our (both teachers and students)
problems relate to structures that were not designed to promote
learning so much as "mastery," and which were intended to benefit a
very different group than is now attending many colleges and
universities.
 It seems to me that part of the reason that our students say they
have trouble keeping up is that they, for a multitude of reasons,
really don't have the reading/writing/thinking skills many of us
consider essential for college level work.  I have found this true at
the graduate as well as the undergraduate level.  One reason may be
that K-12 isn't doing as good a job as it used to, or it may be that
TV, other forms of entertainment (including the computer!) are
replacing reading, debating, etc. as leisure time activities.
But let's not overlook the obvious fact that many of our students are
indeed people who wouldn't have been in college 20 or 30 years ago.
It used to be (in the bad old days) that college-bound students had
a very differernt "track" than "other" students; now those "others"
are present (and Women's Studies programs have long advocated just
this goal)--but they haven't necessarily acquired all the skills they
need to succeed in college.  What's more, I think it is our job, once
they are in our classrooms, to assist and support them in the
acquisition of those skills.
 
I do think that teaching fewer books and articles, taking more class
time to work through the text in class, more small group discussions,
more in-class writing assignments, etc. are not necessarily "less" or
a dumbing down of the subject.  I don't the like the punitive
attitude of many of my colleagues, who are almost insulted by a
student whose reading or writing skills are not up to par.  If we
don't teach
our students how to read, how to analyze, how to write--who will?
Someone mentioned the British system in which many fewer books might
be assigned but real understanding gained.  The student goes away
with knowledge and skills that can be applied over and over again.  I
think it is vitally important that our syllabi allow time and space
for students to read and explore their own intersts--I've sometimes
used a "menu" approach to assignments, allowing the students to read
one of say three books or articles.  When they come to class, they
are assigned a discussion group based on what they chose.  I still
get to list a full page of readings, but they only have to read some
of them.  This is not easy for the teacher and certainly has some
problems (on the other hand, it lifted from me the responsibility of
over-preparing because I literally couldn't keep up with all the
options).  Many of us also use approaches that encourage or require
individual projects and assignments that allow the student to choose
their own readings.
 
The system that forces larger and larger classes, heavier
requirements for publication, and all sorts of other obligations on
teachers is one that makes it difficult to implement feminist
pedagogies, one that acknowledges that many of our students need
mentoring, special assistance, extra support.  Who is going to give
it to them?  I think Women's studies has an obligation to continue in
its role of questioning many aspects of higher education as it's
traditionally seen and operates--we must be advocates for ourselves,
our students, and pedagogies/structures that provide access to
necessary skills and while giving teachers credit and support for
doing more than just selling "facts" in huge lecture classes.
 
I think it is very dangerous to accept the "standards" of an higher
education system that is very threatened by the introduction of large
numbers of women, minorities, groups and individuals that weren't
always here, and I do think there is sometimes and in some places a
tendency toward backlash...sometimes disguised as a renewed concern
for "standards."  I too am torn when I must reduce my beloved reading
list, adjust due dates, spend precious hours counseling students
outside of class (knowing I have work to get done...)--but I also
think that we must continue to act as advocates for reform of the
educational system on ALL levels so that ALL students do have equal
access to books, education, and all the resources of our institutions.
 
Barb
Dr. Barbara Rodman                      BRODMAN  @  CAS1.UNT.EDU
Dept. of English                        817-565-2050/4670
University of North Texas
Denton, Texas 76203-3827

 
>I too use the reading aloud in class strategy and have to defend it
>against some of the objections that have been raised.  Though it can be
>used to address the problem of no one having done the reading on a
>particular day, since I really resent lecturing to students who haven't
>done the reading, I think it is most useful as a way of encouring
>close-reading of the text.
 
Reading aloud was a central part of the strategy used at Columbia College
Chicago when I taught there many years ago.  It was a useful means of having
students "hear their own voice" as John Schultz, then the chair, used to
say, and to hear the author's voice as well.  It worked very well as a means
of making difficult writing accessible to those students who were not used
to reading difficult material, and as a means of making the often convoluted
sentence structures of writers like Thoreau accessible to contemporary
students.  But it took an awful lot of time, time that could not be spent
addressing intellectual or rhetorical issues raised in the texts.  (win
some, lose some, I guess.)  I still read aloud or request my students to
read aloud occasionally in classes--mostly as a way of trying to pinpoint
what the writer we are discussing actually said, as compared to the kind of
hazy recollection that even students who have done the reading bring to
class; and as a means of modelling how to use quotations in writing papers.
But I surely think that students must be expected to do the assigned reading
outside of class.  The whole point of education, it seems to me, is helping
students gain the capacity to learn on their own.
 
Linda S. Bergmann, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of English and Director of Writing Across the Curriculum
University of Missouri-Rolla
Rolla, MO  65409
 
(573) 341-4685        bergmann  @  umr.edu

 
It's good to give students a syllabus at the outset and let them know you
set high standards - but fitting education into "cracks in their lives"?
Oh, Joan! I still remember weeping at 2 am because I couldn't keep my eyes
open to study any more when I was an undergraduate with a full time job
and 9 credits of evening courses. Don't brush them off or "dumb down" Take
the advice on the list for leniency and postponements. beatrice
                bkachuck  @  email.gc.cuny.edu

 
Part of the problem with "too much to read" also seems to be "too hard to
understand in the time alotted."  So a version of reading aloud can in fact
be helpful -- read, then stop to discuss; read, discuss... (I think someone
suggested this).
 
Another way to help students understand difficult texts, learn how to read
carefully, and talk in class is to break the class into small groups (3 or 4
per group), assigning a chunk of a longer text to each group, or a whole
short text to each one.  This works for literary texts and for articles,
essays.  Give them a task to work on togehter -- summarize, respond, argue
against, discuss implications, whatever is needful.  They should write out
their work (or you can let them make notes to report on orally -- depends on
their abilities) which they turn in at the end of class.  After say 15 - 20
minutes, reconvene; groups report, others must respond (you will probably
have to do some prompting here).  I will either write a brief comment on the
work they turn in or photocopy it for the rest of the class.
 
A useful variation -- have several groups work on the same text or chunk of
text.  They always come up with different ideas, so then you can have a good
talk about there not being just one "right answer."  This is always
successful with literary texts, and works well with articles, too.
 
This may seem like taking up a lot of class time, but in fact it is just
what we so often want to do -- students take responsibility for their work,
they learn to work with others (and they work really hard when others depend
on them), they practice all sorts of reading, writing, and discussion
skills, work is not directed solely at the professor.  I've also learned
that a lot of the issues that I want them to think/talk about just come up,
often when you least expect it, when they have to concentrate and work this
way.  That's my experience, anyway.
 
Andrea
 
Andrea M. Atkin
Dept. of English
Wake Forest Univ.
atkinam  @  wfu.edu

 
I teach small group communication.  I use Rothwell's _In Mixed company_ as
the major text for the class--this is not a difficult book to read.
The first or second class session I have students introduce themselves ,
this helps with the comfort level in class.  During those introductions
one of the questions students may answer is, "What was the last book
read?"  Most students answer this question by responding,"I don't read."
Some are very proud of the fact that they do not read.
When I introduce the textbook and discuss why I picked this particular
book, I also recommend that students read Adler's _How To Read a Book_.
Many students assume there is only one way to read any text, of course we
know this is not the case.  The upshot is--for many students any reading
is too much reading.
Barbara Hogue

 
I have been toying with the idea of teaching my students how about the
"division of labor." I think that if we structured assignments so they at
least talked to one another about the readings, that that would also
accomplish some of what we're trying to do here.   Maybe it would be more
effective than skim reading in isolation?  Has anybody been trying anything
like this?
                                Lynet Uttal

 
I've been lurking in this conversation about students and preparation,
including complaint that they are asked to read too much.  First on
syllabi - I _always_ give my students a detailed syllabus at the beginning
of the term that spells out exactly what is expected of them, not only
in terms of grade weights for each assignments, but also information on
how to _do_ the assignments.  But I think at least a third of my students
do _not_ read the syllabus!  (One semester in the Intro to Women's Studies
class we even had a quiz on the syllabus at the beginning of the term!)
This failure to read the syllabus is a) either another example of students
not reading class materials or b) a kind of lack of socialization about
what is expected of them on how to be a good college citizen.  I honestly
don't know how to deal with this issue, except to make more paper and
provide handouts throughout the term, preferably color coded to draw
attention!
On reading - I was surprised to see a consensus emerging that 100 pages
a week is 'standard' for the college classroom.  At my university, WVU
I would be laughed at if I assigned that much - the students often feel
that we are asking a lot of them if we assign 50 pages (which is what
I do do in my seminars).  In part, that's because a full course load,
needed to get those valuable scholarships, is _5_ courses (of 3 credits
each) per semester.  That's a lot.  I wish we were at 4 courses the
way I was at the elite private college I went to in the late sixties,
early seventies, as a scholarship and working student.  (I read everything,
late into the night, and I worked twenty hours a week in addition.)
My students often work 30 hours a week.
But I would like us to set aside the issue of quantity - many of the
concepts that we deal with in my Women's Studies course are difficult -
often counter to the culture.  Being able to successfully understand
the material sometimes requires _slowing down_, reading one article
carefully, even; dealing with the cognitive and emotional fallout.
Sometimes I think we (and I include myself in this, very much) are
falling into the trap of "mastery" of a subject matter - that is,
"covering the material."  I've begun to realize (well, some of the time)
that one of the most important things I can do is help my students
to gain the critical skills necessary - and to develop the curiousity -
so that they can then continue to read on their own, take responsibility
for their education, and ease off a bit on the 'get a good grade/get
a job' concern that they all - legitimately - have, all too often
to the exclusion of true learning.  Well, that's my say for now - when
I got back the midterms in my seminar on "Sex and Sexuality in American
Culture" there were 4 students with Fs or Ds.  That made me very sad -
I'm now tutoring them for an additional hour every other week - so
that can learn more about study skills and my expectations.  (One student
I'm also sending to our tutoring center for additional work, at _his_
request.  Oh, I forgot to say - one of the Fs was gotten by a Chinese
American student whose first language is Cantonese; two are African-
American men; one is a quiet white woman.  I really don't want to lose
anybody.  Barbara Scott Winkler  WINKLER  @  wvnvms.wvnet.edu

 
In order to allow students to learn about a wider range of literature
than they can read, I have sometimes created courses with "article
assignment" days.  Students are all assigned to teams and each team is
responsible for a different article from a reading list due on the
assigned day.  Each team has 5 minutes to present what the argument is in
the scholarly article.  Thus the whole class hears about 4-5 readings,
but students only read one.  Furthermore, I tell teams, they can split up
the work.  For example, they could assign the 6-7 articles they will
report on during the term each to a different member of the team, or
create smaller teams for particular readings.  And YES I give them
guidelines on how to present so that we don't get long, summaries without
a point.  I use a variation of this in a course on women and the law.
Legal opinions can be tough reading for undergraduates (its bad enough
for law students!).  So I sometimes split the class into groups and give
each group the task of really working through a different opinion.  Then
they summarize for the class.  Joan Gundersen  jrgunder  @  coyote.csusm.edu

 
I would suggest that we keep this discussion from evolving into personal
attacks.  Just because a teacher holds students to a single standard of
assignment does not mean that they are incapable of compassion or "brush
off" students.  No one on this list knows what my policies are for
extensions on papers, or how many hours I work with students out of
class.  It is because I DO care for my students that I insist they get
the best possible education and the most out of each class.  I also
respect them and think they are adults capable of making choices and
living with the consequences.  Many times I have counseled students that
it is OK to be a "C" student in order to be an "A"
mom/employee/wife/friend on a given day (or vice versa).  It's their
right to make that choice and they may need to make it to stay sane.  In
fact I tell them that there are days I have to be willing to settle for
being less than an "A" teacher in order to be at least a "B" family
member.  What I object to is not recognizing that we have made that
choice and will have to take the consequences.  I find that most older
students are quite willing to make those choices. Often they are relieved
to find out its OK to be less than perfect every now and then in their
studies. It is students who have come out of less demanding high schools
and have little experience of life in general that complain about the
assignments.  To them, the idea of having to homework on a weekend is
"unreasonable."  Women's studies as a field has helped to provide much of
the research that lets us recognize the double and tripple "burdens/jobs"
of women's lives.  The best way to address those hurdles to education is
NOT to make the education less, but to reduce the original burdens.  We
can fund scholarships, work for compassionate policies on student
withdrawal from courses, incompletes, etc., We can scrutinize class
schedules to ensure that our courses are truly accessable, and rview
assignments to ensure that they have valid education goals and a purpose.
 I have found that very few students complain when they can see the point
and value of an assignment.    Joan R. Gundersen  CSU, San Marcos
jrgunder  @  coyote.csusm.edu

 
Hello everyone,
 
This is a fascinating debate for those of us grappling with the
problems of tertiary education in the new South Africa and uncertain
about the extent to which our problems here are shared in more
affluent and equitable countries.  Just two points - I was a graduate
student in the USA for a while in the early 80's, and found that,
although students claimed to have done the readings for each class,
what had frequently lodged in their minds were misreadings as a
result of hasty, superficial skimming practices, and a lot of class
time was taken up in debating what students claimed a critic had said
but which in fact often grossly misrepresented his/her position.
These were classes in literary theory, where accurate reading was
particularly important to the progress of the group.
 
Secondly - our problems in South Africa are increasingly
frustratingly connected with the high and ever-higher cost of books,
the inadequacy of financial support for students, the caution of
booksellers who simply don't order enough texts for a class for fear
that they won't be sold, and grossly underfunded libraries from which
books are increasingly being stolen rather than simply borrowed.  Are
we moving towards the bookless university here?  Students often
respond with a kind of cynical or despairing apathy  and passivity to
these conditions; the more energetic hope to turn their professors'
book collections into a library facility (which sooner or later also
decimates the professors' collections!).  Reading assignments must of
necessity be severely limited or rely entirely on relatively old/
canonical material, since much new thinking - given the expense of
overseas publications - simply doesn't get here or only arrives in
single copies (hence a hefty culture of photocopying despite the
legal issues associated with this).  We seem to be settled into a
situation in which we are almost always lecturing to and trying to
teach students who haven't read the text - en masse.  And then
there's also a segment of the student intake which believes that,
after the pressures of getting a good enough school-leaving pass to
enter university have been survived, now is the time to relax and
enjoy the fruits of their labours:  i.e. a pass is good enough - who
wants to slog it out for an A?
 
The problems discussed in the list debate are all ones we're familiar
with in our classes, but the additional problems I've mentioned above
make the situation here particularly discouraging.  Our response here
has been to undertake a major review of our practices, and next year
we hope to be able to improve morale and participation, if nothing
else!
 
Kathy Wagner
University of Natal/Pietermaritzburg
wagner  @  english.unp.ac.za

 
I couple of days ago, I wrote:
 
>I think I would have been *furious* at a class in which I hired
>a babysitter (& paid good money for it) just to go to the class
>and participate with other students in reading the text out loud
>in class.  I could have read it at home WITHOUT paying the sitter.
 
After reading the further discussion on this, I have changed
my mind a bit (NOW - not sure I would have THEN though).  I
can see where there is pedagogical value to doing this in
some instances, for reasons other than just to make sure
that the students are reading the text.
 
However, I gotta say, I DID drop my grad school Wittgenstein
class in which we read (& discussed in class) 1 sentence
per class meeting.  I can understand the vaule of close
reading of the text, but at the time I had a kid in 4th
grade who was coming home from school to an empty house
and sitting there alone while I was reading & discussing
1 sentence/day of Wittgenstein, and MY priorities were
(& probably still would be) that no matter HOW good
Wittgenstein was and HOW valuable his work, it wasn't
worth having my daughter sit at home alone for 2 hours
after school just to attend THAT closely to his every
word.
 
Alas, I still regret to some extent how little I know
about Wittgenstein.
 
Ruth Ginzberg
Women's Studies
Beloit College
ginzberg  @  beloit.edu

 
From a students' perspective I would like to add that I do feel the obligation
 to get all assigned readings & homework done and aim to read material beyond
 that too. In the past, when I found that I couldn't live up to my part of the
 deal, I often dropped the class instead of just attending it passively. But, I
 hated doing that because I *want* to learn and I *want* to read but I *just
 don't have the time* sometimes.
 
The classes that have worked best for me, and that seem to have worked well for
 others in there also, were the ones that made clear in the very first session
 that they required hard work, but at the same time allowed for some space if
 circumstances made it impossible to prepare. Our professor told us that he
 *expected* us to be prepared and thus *we* should expect him to call on us at
 all times, even if we weren't raising hands. On the other hand, it would be
 okay not to be prepared one time or two, provided we let him know before class
 so he wouldn't need to call on us.
 
The result was that most of the students who just wanted a pass stayed away, and
 most of the remaining students were motivated and well-prepared, and the
 general atmosphere was highly stimulating, diverse and safe. Never had a better
 class. I was able to somehow find a reasonable balance because of that extra
 space and didn't need to drop one class.
 
True, there are people who have all kinds of responsibilties and still manage to
 get everything done. But everyone has different limits. Maybe those that
 "managed it all" were not confronted with the one event that would have ruined
 all their efforts and leave them useless for days or even weeks.
 
At my school it seems though that most people don't do their work just because
 they don't feel like it, *and don't even feel bad about it*. And those usually
 strike me as the "traditional students" with money in their back, who go to
 university only because it is a tradition in their family.
 
Micca Blaha
Ruhr University Bochum

 
Lynet asked about having students share what they are reading.  I
have used a technique in the past and I'm using it now that has
worked ffectively.  Be warned however that some students take this
method to mean the professor is too lazy to lecture.
 
I divide students into groups based upon their speaking styles.  All
high intensity, quick speakers are together in groups and the quiet
speakers are together in groups.  It does encourage everyone to
participate.
 
Each class period, I prepare discussion questions based upon the
assigned reading (for my present family class, the discussion is only
on Fridays).  The students come up with answers to the questions
which each group writes on the boards to share with the rest of the
class.  I then have them turn in discussion summaries, compare their
groups answers to other groups, and discuss how their answers fit
into the ones the groups decided on.  There's a lot less grumbling
about reading and a lot more respsonsibilty displayed for getting the
reading done -- peer pressure works.
 
Barbara
Barbara J. Peters
Social Sciences Division
Long Island University - Southampton
Southampton, NY
(516) 287-8236
 
bpeters  @  sunburn.liunet.edu